[themainsman]

Hello Head-fi. Before I begin this thread I would like to point out that I am by no means an audiophile, only a person who appreciates high quality sound and researches headphones a lot. I currently own a pair of VMODA Crossfade Wireless which I drive from my Macbook Air, so I don't necessarily own audiophile grade equipment either. I have a really good friend who, let's just has a lot of money. He says that he is mainly going to listen to classical music on them. He *just* started looking for a new pair of headphones to replace his current Beats Studio 3 which he thinks sound kinda bad, however, I believe there to be many things wrong with how he is researching, and as a friend I don't want him to make the wrong purchase. Here are a few things that he does that I believe to be wrong, as well as my response to them:

- He is looking for what he calls "midrange" over ear headphones, so he is looking at headphones in the $700 PRICE RANGE, such as the Sony Z7 as well as $400-$700 DAC's to go along with them, just after coming from a pair of Beats Studios.
"Midrange" is NOT $700. In addition to that, I don't think that it is a wise idea to go from a pair of Beats to a $1500 audiophile grade headphone setup. And while most of the headphones he is looking at would require a DAC/Amp, I don't think that he should be buying such an expensive headphone.

- He is relying HEAVILY upon specifications such as frequency range, driver size, and impedance, often times citing the massive frequency range (4-100000 hz) of the Sony Z7 as a reason to buy them.
I think that headphone specifications are irrelevant. For example, while a pair of $20 Monoprice headphones might have a larger driver size and similar frequency range as say the Audio Technica ATH-M50X, they aren't going to sound nearly as good. Most of the headphone specifications except for the sensitivity (to determine whether they can be driven with his Macbook Air or not) I think are marketing bullsh*t, especially the gigantic frequency ranges cited with the Sony Z7. Correct me if I am wrong, but there is no point of having over 30Khz especially if human hearing tops out at 20Khz. And while he says that supersonic frequencies are required for a good soundstage, this is debatable at best. Point being, I hope he disregards specifications for the most part in his search for new cans.

- He bases headphones off of what brand they are, and often says that one brand is better than another, without specific details.
While some headphone manufacturers are truly better than others, for example VMODA and Beats, you can't just say that a headphone is good because Sony makes it. Every headphone manufacturer makes different headphones at different prices, some better than others. It is impossible rate a headphone off of the brand who manufactures it.

I would appreciate it if you could comment your thoughts and opinions on both mine and those of my friend. I really don't want him to spend $1000 on a setup that he chose just off of their specs, and I think that going from Beats to audiophile grade equipment is too big a leap for anyone. Thanks

 

[HBen]

"Midrange" is NOT $700. In addition to that, I don't think that it is a wise idea to go from a pair of Beats to a $1500 audiophile grade headphone setup. And while most of the headphones he is looking at would require a DAC/Amp, I don't think that he should be buying such an expensive headphone.

It's all a question of definition and perspective. Coming from an average person's standpoint, a 700$ headphone might be considered high end or "audiophile grade" as you call it - in nowadays enthusiast scene where people buy high end headphones for 4000$ and more (hello LCD4, Utopia, Susvara, Abyss, 009, ...) there are definitely people who consider the 500-700$ area as todays "midrange", as weird as this may seem to you (it's still kind of weird for me too^^).
Also making a big step up in sound quality isn't the worst idea in my opinion. Better buy it once right and be happy with it than always upgrading just a little and loosing a lot of money in the process ...

I think that headphone specifications are irrelevant.

While I would't say specifications are irrelevant in every sence, I agree on the fact that specifications alone really don't say much about a headphones sound quality - even more so as many specs are pretty far from reality. Properly done headphone measurements can however give a good indication of how a headphone sounds like - however the specs you mentioned are all pretty irrelevant to judge a headphone. So yep, you are pretty right here.

- He bases headphones off of what brand they are, and often says that one brand is better than another, without specific details.
While some headphone manufacturers are truly better than others, for example VMODA and Beats,...

While I totally agree with your statement in general, the fact that you name VMODA and Beats as headphone manufacturers that are "truely better than others" makes me wonder how much you really know about high quality headphones. If I had to guess based on that statement, I would unfortunately have to say "probably not that much".

Some final hint for your friend choosing his "better than beats headphone" (not a very difficult task if you ask me):

Don't rely on specs or even tests by hifi magazines or even only on recommendations on forums like this one. There is just too much (hidden) marketing out there these days.
Go LISTEN to the headphones you want to buy yourself first, use your own music which you know well to do that so you can properly judge.
Don't buy before hearing them!
Also many headphone amps/dacs in the lower price area are not much better than your headphone out of your stereo receiver or your soundcard of your pc/laptop ... don't waste your money here as well if you haven't tested it with your new headphones yourself and made sure there is an audiable difference which justifies the price.

Good luck on your headphone journey

 

[serman005]

It is as @HBen has stated. If he doesn't go out and listen to the headphones he is considering, his decision will be ill-informed. I do not use headphone technical specifications in selecting my headphones. To me they are irrelevant. And $5-700 is sadly often considered 'midrange,' as crazy as that may seem..

 

[themainsman]

Thank you for your response. I hope I can pass on some of this information to him, however I hope that it hasn't been a "blind leading the blind" situation with him and I for the past couple days . I always go to Head-fi to broaden my understanding of headphones and I think I accomplished that today . Thanks.

 

[themainsman]

It is as @HBen has stated. If he doesn't go out and listen to the headphones he is considering, his decision will be ill-informed. I do not use headphone technical specifications in selecting my headphones. To me they are irrelevant. And $5-700 is sadly often considered 'midrange,' as crazy as that may seem..

Yeah I guess that everybody has a different definition of what "midrange" headphones are; for people who are more willing to spend money on quality products or just have a lot of money will have a different opinion of what "midrange" is than someone simply looking to upgrade their Apple Earpods.

 

[Oscar-HiFi]

I had a conversation with a customer yesterday, as he has a bought a "high res" player, and got told by a person in an "audio" shop that he needs headphones with the "high res" certification to get the best out of the player. Now this is total BS as the customer is listening to MP3 tracks @320kbps and some FLAC.

He was also looking at Sony due to the specs, but I advised that the specs mean very little and are also greatly exagerrated by Sony.

Get your friend to visit a genuine headphone store and have a listen to headphones in that price range. A $700 headphone with a $700 DAC/Amp setup is a good budget, so he really needs to find something that suits his tastes rather than buy because of the brand and false specs.

 

[GREQ]

There are some $20 headphones I love.
There are some $2000 headphones I hate.
Cost has little to do with how much enjoyment you can get from a quality product.

If he will not go out and audition a wide variety of headphones to find the one that fits requirements and tastes, that's the same as buying a home without visiting the property or buying a car without test driving it.

 

[Dulalala]

- He is relying HEAVILY upon specifications such as frequency range, driver size, and impedance, often times citing the massive frequency range (4-100000 hz) of the Sony Z7 as a reason to buy them.

I don't blame him, there is a lot of nonsense out there if you don't dig deep enough to verify it. He obviously doesn't know what impedance is if he's citing that impedance is a factor of headphone quality, let alone hearing 100,000 hZ?

Either way, there are a bunch of online resources you can show him too, to disprove him.

Impedance: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrical_impedance
Driver Size: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loudspeaker#Full-range_drivers
Frequency Audibility Range: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hearing_range

There is much more to just those specs that he pulled out, most likely because it's what he saw on the website's front page. Things like impulse response, a well made enclosure to prevent resonance, etc make a difference too.

 

[themainsman]

I had a conversation with a customer yesterday, as he has a bought a "high res" player, and got told by a person in an "audio" shop that he needs headphones with the "high res" certification to get the best out of the player. Now this is total BS as the customer is listening to MP3 tracks @320kbps and some FLAC.

He was also looking at Sony due to the specs, but I advised that the specs mean very little and are also greatly exagerrated by Sony.

Get your friend to visit a genuine headphone store and have a listen to headphones in that price range. A $700 headphone with a $700 DAC/Amp setup is a good budget, so he really needs to find something that suits his tastes rather than buy because of the brand and false specs.

Thanks for the advice. Yeah I feel like the "Certified Hi-Res" headphones in the lower price ranges such as the Sony h.ear series that are aimed towards the average consumer don't make a lot of sense to me. More often than not IMO people who buy those $200-300 Sony "Hi-Res" headphones won't listen to actual Hi-Res files to get the most out of them.

 

[themainsman]

I don't blame him, there is a lot of nonsense out there if you don't dig deep enough to verify it. He obviously doesn't know what impedance is if he's citing that impedance is a factor of headphone quality, let alone hearing 100,000 hZ?

Either way, there are a bunch of online resources you can show him too, to disprove him.

Impedance: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrical_impedance
Driver Size: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loudspeaker#Full-range_drivers
Frequency Audibility Range: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hearing_range

There is much more to just those specs that he pulled out, most likely because it's what he saw on the website's front page. Things like impulse response, a well made enclosure to prevent resonance, etc make a difference too.

Yeah a lot of those specs are usually marketing BS. However I did tell him that instead of looking at just the frequency range of the headphones he should check out some frequency response graphs as those are much more helpful.

 

[Dulalala]

Yeah a lot of those specs are usually marketing BS. However I did tell him that instead of looking at just the frequency range of the headphones he should check out some frequency response graphs as those are much more helpful.

It's not marketing BS, it's just not very useful to people who don't know what it means. It can be useful for making rough estimates on things like power requirement (like with sensitivity and impedance).

 

[Oscar-HiFi]

It's not marketing BS, it's just not very useful to people who don't know what it means. It can be useful for making rough estimates on things like power requirement (like with sensitivity and impedance).

Sony frequency response is not to be believed though, as they do not put the +/-dB at all...

Thanks for the advice. Yeah I feel like the "Certified Hi-Res" headphones in the lower price ranges such as the Sony h.ear series that are aimed towards the average consumer don't make a lot of sense to me. More often than not IMO people who buy those $200-300 Sony "Hi-Res" headphones won't listen to actual Hi-Res files to get the most out of them.

I won't get into the whole, is high res actually audible/better etc... argument, but the little "high res" sticker on items is for marketing in my opinion. You don't have to buy "high res" certified headphones for a "high res" certified player to get the most out of it in my opinion.

 

[Dulalala]

Sony frequency response is not to be believed though, as they do not put the +/-dB at all...

I meant specifications in general. Sony is known for this kind of stuff anyways. I remember hearing somewhere that even Sony engineers don't believe in half the stuff they put into their products, I won't specify which though.

 

[Ebunw0w]

"Midrange" is NOT $700. In addition to that, I don't think that it is a wise idea to go from a pair of Beats to a $1500 audiophile grade headphone setup. And while most of the headphones he is looking at would require a DAC/Amp, I don't think that he should be buying such an expensive headphone.

Midrange can be $700 for some people. I've even heard people call the HD800S "mid-fi"

 

[BunnyNamedCraig]

I had a conversation with a customer yesterday, as he has a bought a "high res" player, and got told by a person in an "audio" shop that he needs headphones with the "high res" certification to get the best out of the player. Now this is total BS as the customer is listening to MP3 tracks @320kbps and some FLAC.

He was also looking at Sony due to the specs, but I advised that the specs mean very little and are also greatly exagerrated by Sony.

Get your friend to visit a genuine headphone store and have a listen to headphones in that price range. A $700 headphone with a $700 DAC/Amp setup is a good budget, so he really needs to find something that suits his tastes rather than buy because of the brand and false specs.

+1.

Have him go there and have him listen to a bunch of different options. That way he will be able to hear other less known brands that far exceed some of the very well known brands... Meze for instance I think is fantastic for the price and their 99 Classic that is made out of maple or walnut sells for $309? There is still great sound at that price range. Not to mention Focal for a brand that isn't sold in big box stores...

Not only will he disprove his brand assumptions, but he will also develop his tastes in the process which is very important. That way he will be making a very informed decision on his purchase for his own ears, regardless of what he thinks is midfi/hifi ect.

I wish you both the best, and hit us up if your ever in Pittsburgh. We will take care of you.

-Craig