[tru blu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tru blu /img/forum/go_quote.gif Amen. Benny Carter used to say that, in terms of innovation, nothing that happened in jazz later surprised him as much as Charlie Parker had.

Not to make this about me, but I did mention Benny C…point taken, though. Perhaps you could recommend a disc?

As for the collaboration between Billie Holiday and Lester Young, A Musical Romance is a fantastic survey.

 

[jaduffy007]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tru blu /img/forum/go_quote.gif Not to make this about me, but I did mention Benny C…point taken, though. Perhaps you could recommend a disc? As for the collaboration between Billie Holiday and Lester Young, A Musical Romance is a fantastic survey.

Since ralphp hasn't made a suggestion yet...I'll chime in.

Benny Carter: Jazz Giant, Further Definitions

Clifford Brown: Study in Brown, Clifford Brown and Max Roach

Ben Webster: Soulville, Coleman Hawkins Encounters Ben Webster, King of Tenors, Ben Webster Meets Oscar Peterson

Coleman Hawkins: At Ease, Body and Soul, The Hawk Flies High, Night Hawk

Art Blakey: I think I recommended several discs on page 2 of this thread...but since I LOVE Blakey...here's a few more:
Mosaic (an essential...oops)
The Jazz Messengers (again...oops)
Buhaina's Delight
The Jazz Messengers at the Cafe Bohemia
The Witch Doctor

Count Basie: Atomic Basie, April In Paris

Since I'm listening to Ahmad right now....
Ahmad Jamal: Someone already suggested..At the Pershing(but not for me), I would add:
The Legendary Okeh/Epic, The Awakening, Ahmad's Blues

Vocalists:

Bessie Smith: The Essential B.S.

Billie Holiday: Lady Day, Commodore Master Takes

Dinah Washington: Dinah Jams

Nina Simone: I don't really know her recordings well enough to have an opinion.
------------------------------------
How 'bout a few lesser known (or talked about), but awesome?
Kenny Dorham: Whistle Stop, Una Mas, Quiet Kenny, Blue Spring
Blue Mitchell: The Thing To Do, Down With It!, The Cup Bearers
Duke Pearson: Wahoo, The Right Touch (Amazing composer/arranger)
Tina Brooks: True Blue, The Waiting Game

 

[tru blu]

Lester Young …with the Oscar Peterson Trio

Lucky Thompson …Meets Oscar Pettiford (used to be available on GRP as Tricotism; like that sequence better, but either way it's a brilliant record)

Nina Simone Anthology - Two discs, the first one perfect. She was a remarkably intrepid interpreter with excellent taste in songs, but her records are (as her concerts were) notoriously uneven. Way influential, though: The Animals got "Don't Let Me Be Misunderstood" from her, and I think Cat Power (and possibly David Bowie) got "Wild Is The Wind." Feist's "Sealion" is an appropriation of Simone's "See Line Woman." Simone also recorded a good version of Randy Newman's "Baltimore."

 

[weste47]

Check out the group named Koop. The albums Koop Islands and Waltz for Koop are really somethin.

 

[ralphp@optonline]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tru blu /img/forum/go_quote.gif Not to make this about me, but I did mention Benny C…point taken, though. Perhaps you could recommend a disc? As for the collaboration between Billie Holiday and Lester Young, A Musical Romance is a fantastic survey.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaduffy007 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Since ralphp hasn't made a suggestion yet...I'll chime in. Benny Carter: Jazz Giant, Further Definitions Clifford Brown: Study in Brown, Clifford Brown and Max Roach Ben Webster: Soulville, Coleman Hawkins Encounters Ben Webster, King of Tenors, Ben Webster Meets Oscar Peterson Coleman Hawkins: At Ease, Body and Soul, The Hawk Flies High, Night Hawk Art Blakey: I think I recommended several discs on page 2 of this thread...but since I LOVE Blakey...here's a few more: Mosaic (an essential...oops) The Jazz Messengers (again...oops) Buhaina's Delight The Jazz Messengers at the Cafe Bohemia The Witch Doctor Count Basie: Atomic Basie, April In Paris Since I'm listening to Ahmad right now.... Ahmad Jamal: Someone already suggested..At the Pershing(but not for me), I would add: The Legendary Okeh/Epic, The Awakening, Ahmad's Blues Vocalists: Bessie Smith: The Essential B.S. Billie Holiday: Lady Day, Commodore Master Takes Dinah Washington: Dinah Jams Nina Simone: I don't really know her recordings well enough to have an opinion. ------------------------------------ How 'bout a few lesser known (or talked about), but awesome? Kenny Dorham: Whistle Stop, Una Mas, Quiet Kenny, Blue Spring Blue Mitchell: The Thing To Do, Down With It!, The Cup Bearers Duke Pearson: Wahoo, The Right Touch (Amazing composer/arranger) Tina Brooks: True Blue, The Waiting Game

Okay, so I may have misspoke a bit in my post but nonetheless I still managed to accomplish what I wanted, i.e. to get this thread opened up to some more great jazz artists.

BTW, duffy, that is a very good list you put together there. I can't find fault with any of your selections.

One of the great things about jazz is that once someone gets past the handful of "giants" or rather, once someone becomes familiar with the music of these jazz giants, than one can move onto the real meat of jazz, which are all the somewhat "lesser" known but equally enjoyable jazz artists. And the world of jazz is filled with many of these wonderful musicians.

Sometimes I even feel that "true" jazz is more defined by these "lesser" known musicians than by the handful of jazz "giants" that everyone knows about. Sure "Kind of Blue" is a great record but is it really that much better than Art Blakey's "Moanin'" or Monk's "Brilliant Corners"? To name but two great albums from around the same time. (Hint: I don't think so.)

 

[jaduffy007]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ralphp@optonline /img/forum/go_quote.gif One of the great things about jazz is that once someone gets past the handful of "giants" or rather, once someone becomes familiar with the music of these jazz giants, than one can move onto the real meat of jazz, which are all the somewhat "lesser" known but equally enjoyable jazz artists. And the world of jazz is filled with many of these wonderful musicians. Sometimes I even feel that "true" jazz is more defined by these "lesser" known musicians than by the handful of jazz "giants" that everyone knows about. Sure "Kind of Blue" is a great record but is it really that much better than Art Blakey's "Moanin'" or Monk's "Brilliant Corners"? To name but two great albums from around the same time. (Hint: I don't think so.)

Hey ralphp...I think it's great that the thread is branching out...and hopefully you, TruBlu, bigshot, Kees and others who are clearly passionate about this music will keep this thread going. It's worth remembering though...the original post was concerning "must-have" recordings for someone *new* to the genre...thus my initial recommendations.

As far as philosophizin' about jazz...I think I've already gone beyond my quota in that arena...and will just keep quiet.

Lastly...Congrats to Herbie Hancock for album of the year !!! (please note who he acknowledged in his acceptance speech...Miles and Coltrane). I have some personal, priceless Herbie stories to share....another time.

 

[ralphp@optonline]

Here's a link to an outrageously funny article from The Onion from June, 2003. It tells the sad of the fate which often befalls jazz newbies.

Five-Disc Jazz Anthology Still Unopened | The Onion - America's Finest News Source

 

[jaduffy007]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ralphp@optonline /img/forum/go_quote.gif Here's a link to an outrageously funny article from The Onion from June, 2003. It tells the sad of the fate which often befalls jazz newbies. Five-Disc Jazz Anthology Still Unopened | The Onion - America's Finest News Source

Essential Jazz Reading:

Hear Me Talkin' to Ya by Nat Hentoff and Nat Shapiro

The Making of Jazz by James Collier

Louis Armstrong, In His Own Words by Louis Armstrong

Louis Armstrong: An Extravagant Life by Laurence Bergreen

Satchmo: The Genius Of Louis Armstrong by Gary Giddens

Beyond Category: The Life and Genius of Duke Ellington by John Hasse and Wynton Marsalis

Music Is My Mistress by Duke Ellington

The Birth of Bebop by Scott DeVeaux

John Coltrane: His Life and Music by Lewis Porter

Miles by Miles Davis

Milestones by JK Chambers

Monk by Laurent De Wilde

Straight No Chaser by Leslie Gourse

Bird: The Legend of Charlie Parker by Rob Reisner

Charlie Parker: His Music and Life by Carl Woideck

Dance Of The Infidels: A Portrait of Bud Powell by Francis Paudras

Bill Evans: How My Heart Sings by Peter Pettinger

Lush Life: A biography of Billy Strayhorn by David Hajdu

The History of Jazz by Ted Gioia

The Collected essays of Ralph Ellison by Ralph Ellison

Visions Of Jazz: The First Century by Gary Giddens

For the early history and in-depth on the swing era...check out Gunther Schuller's books.

----------------------------------

Which ones would *I* get first?

1 - Hear Me Talkin To Ya by Nat Hentoff and Nat Shapiro
2 - The History of Jazz by Ted Gioia
3 - Louis Armstrong, In His Own Words by Louis Armstrong
4 - Beyond Category: The Life and Genius of Duke Ellington by John Hasse and Wynton Marsalis
5 - Bird: The Legend of CP by Rob Reisner
6 - Milestones by JK Chambers

If you're interested in understanding the theory behind the music or if you're a player:
"Thinking In Jazz" by Paul Berliner is a MUST READ.

If you're a Coltrane "freak" like me....
"The John Coltrane Reference" by Lewis Porter

 

[musicmind]

This is a fantastic thread with so many great album suggestions. Thanks especially to jaduffy007 for compiling all the info.

There is also a very nice resource of jazz biographies produced by NPR, called Jazz Profiles, which can be downloaded from their website :

NPR Music: NPR's 'Jazz Profiles'

 

[buddhashenglong]

Great recommendations by all. Just wanted to add a few favorites to the pile.
Pat Martino - El Hombre, Desperado.
Al Di Meola - Kiss My Axe, Land of the Midnight Sun.
Blue Mitchell - The Thing To Do.
Thelonious Monk - Monk's Music.
Kenny Burrell - Midnight Blue.
Gillespie, Rollins, Stitt - Sonny Side Up.
Roy Haynes - When Its Haynes It Roars.
To the folks who are "critical" of sampling I insist you check out DJ Shadow - Endtroducing, and that you investigate the history of Hip Hop. I'm talking about Kool Herc extending the break to rock parties.

 

[jsaliga]

*Sigh* I really wish members here could ask for suggestions without others feeling the need to engage in battle over what is and is not important. Personally, critique has no place whatsoever in a thread like this, and it pains me to see a handful of folks working to discourage other members from trying certain kinds of music because they personally don't feel it is musically important, culturally significant, or whatever. Shame on you.

Jazz is just too vast a realm to cover in a single thread like this, so instead of recommending a pile of CDs I like (which the OP may or may not bother to sample) I would instead prefer to recommend a jazz discovery strategy and then let the OP find and decide for himself what he does and does not enjoy.

First, you need a few resources. Head-Fi is great to be sure and asking for recommendations might seem like a good place to start, until you find that you are inundated with large lists of albums that are supported by very little in the way of explanation or rationale. The "get these albums because they're great" argument doesn't really do anything to inform your decision-making nor does it improve your knowledge of jazz.

Resource No. 1: A subscription to a music service such as Rhapsody. At $12.99/month for an unlimited subscription it can't be beat. The quality is certainly good enough at 192 mbps CBR MP3, and it will give you access to a jazz library more comprehensive and complete than you could ever hope to possibly own. The idea here is to use Rhapsody as a musical playground and try out music before incurring the cost of actually buying it. While I am sure that people making music recommendations in this thread love the music they recommend, there is no guarantee that you will feel the same way about it. Why shell out money for music that you won't listen to more than once? When you find something you really like then you can buy the CD or vinyl knowing that it was a worthwhile expense. Rhapsody is an indispensable resource that will pay for itself if you listen to more than a few CDs per month.

Resource No. 2: Allmusic Guide. Having a source for music is great but it isn't enough. You need reference material so you can research the artists and the music. This is a source of information that will help to guide your efforts of discovery. It will also help you broaden your horizons and expose you to music that is just impossible to cover in a thread like this. I started listening to jazz about 25 years ago and began with swing, but now I enjoy everything: trad, dixieland, hard bop, post bop, vocal jazz and avant garde. Bix Beiderbecke or Louis Armstrong musically weak? I don't think so at all. Archie Schepp, Albert Ayler, Ornette Coleman too inaccessible? Perhaps, but with continued exposure you may find some order amid all the chaos. Since Allmusic Guide has occasional reliability problems I would suggest Wikipedia as a backup reference source.

Resource No. 3: Head-Fi. This forum can be great for discussing music. The bad thing about asking for suggestions though is that you have no frame of reference since by your own admission you don't know anything about jazz. So when people use terms like hard bop or post bop it doesn't mean anything to you. Resource No. 2 will help you with that. Head-Fi can be a great resource when you want to expand beyond something you might be familiar with. For example, let's say you tried a Miles Davis CD...such as Porgy and Bess. You read the liner notes and wanted to discuss Gil Evans and perhaps get some suggestions for further listening. The difference between the forum and a site like Allmusic guide is obvious...Head-Fi is interactive and affords you the opportunity to participate in an on-going discussion. You might find that this makes the process of discovery more enjoyable.

The truth is that jazz offers something to everyone. If you want to find out what it offers you then you will need to discover that for yourself.

And...if it turns out that jazz isn't really your bag, then you will probably be able to make that call after about a month of employing the strategy suggested above, and all it will have cost you was $12.99 for a month of Rhapsody and whatever time you spent on Allmusic Guide in research.

--Jerome

 

[limpidglitch]

anyone mentioned Errol Garner? brilliant pianist, sort of the same style as Duke Ellington, and he's got a great humour.
Concert by the sea and Misty are highly recommended.

 

[Headphile808]

Miles Davis - Kind Of Blue
John Coltrane - A Love Supreme
Bill Evans Trio - Sunday At The Village Vanguard
Dave Brubeck Quartet - Time Out
Sonny Rollins - Saxophone Colossus
Charles Mingus - Mingus Ah, Um
Thelonious Monk - Brilliant Corners
Wayne Shorter - Speak No Evil
Freddie Hubbard - Hub-Tones
Oliver Nelson - Blues And The Abstract Truth
Lee Morgan - The Sidewinder
The Horace Silver Quintet - Song For My Father
Grant Green - Green Street
Art Blakey & The Jazz Messengers - Mosiac
Herbie Hancock - Maiden Voyage
Eric Dolphy - Out To Lunch
Hank Mobley - Soul Station
Dexter Gordon - Go!
Cannonball Adderly - Somethin' Else
Roy Haynes - Out Of The Afternoon
Andrew Hill - Point Of Departure
Kenny Burrell - Midnight Blue
Jimmy Smith - The Sermon
Lou Donaldson - Blues Walk
Sonny Clark - Cool Struttin'
McCoy Tyner - The Real McCoy
Kenny Dorham - Whistle Stop
Joe Henderson - Mode For Joe
Blue Mitchell - The Thing To Do
Good Luck & Happy Listening
Aloha

Headphile808

 

[Spyro]

One thing I notice on jazz threads is for some strange reason 90% or more of recommendations are recordings that were made 40-50 years ago.

Doesn't anyone listen to more recently released stuff?

 

[jsaliga]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spyro /img/forum/go_quote.gif One thing I notice on jazz threads is for some strange reason 90% or more of recommendations are recordings that were made 40-50 years ago.

For much the same reason that classical music threads seem to focus a great deal on Bach, Mozart, Beethoven, and Brahms.

Sure, there is newer jazz music. And while some of it is quite good it is arguably not as important as what most would consider time-honored classics. So most people will suggest Louis Armstrong, Miles Davis, John Coltrane etc. to someone who is new to jazz long before they will recommend artists such as Chris Botti or Pat Metheny.

--Jerome