[Spyro]

Let's not forget about todays's jazz. Check out some of the offerings from Chris Potter (sax), Antonio Sanchez (drums),Christian McBride (bass) and Brad Mehldau (piano). Widely considered among the best at their craft in the "under age 40" jazz circles.

 

[bigshot]

I'd suggest listening to Cab Calloway's "Some of These Days". No need to think about modal explorations or music theory of any kind Just put the record on and enjoy some of the most energetic and balls out FUN musicmaking ever. It's two minutes of pure joy that I wouldn't mind spending the rest of my life in.

Professors in tweed jackets can frown and nod their head knowingly at complex technique. I'm looking for music that grabs me by the lapels on a gut level and shakes me up and makes me say, "Hey! That's GREAT STUFF! Play it again!"

Duke Ellington, Billie Holliday, Fletcher Henderson, Cab Calloway, Count Basie, Bix Beiderbecke, Louis Armstrong, Jelly Roll Morton, Fats Waller, Don Redman, Django Reinhardt, Venuti and Lang... I could go on for days.

I have a friend who had a great quote once. He said, "They should call the first half or so of the twentieth century, 'The Golden Age of EVERYTHING'." It's true. Before 1964, EVERYTHING was good. Today we have computers and frost free refrigerators. That's really good. But music, movies, design, art, entertainment... the best of today is just average back then.

I wrote this article for animators, but it deals with this issue...
Introduction: Cultural Literacy
Live The Fabulous Lifestyle of a Hollywood Cartoonist

Check out the videos in the second post.

Here's a great book you can read for free online...
Rise And Fall of Popular Music

See ya
Steve

 

[tru blu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigshot /img/forum/go_quote.gif Don't get me started on those sampled Blue Note remixes. You REALLY don't want to hear my opinion of those!

Actually, it's probably the same as my opinion of those, but that wasn't the point. If the original makers of the jazz being sampled nowadays had "rejected entertainment value" (as was suggested), then there would be absolutely no reason for DJs and whomever to go looking for the work of Art Blakey, etc. in search of raw material. And yes, I wish they made more compelling use of stuff, too.

A few more great albums, post-1964:

Miles Davis Filles de Kilimanjaro

Andrew Cyrille & Maono Metamusicians' Stomp

The Lounge Lizards Voice Of Chunk (rocks as much as it swings)

 

[Know Talent]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tru blu /img/forum/go_quote.gif I tend not to recommend avant-garde stuff to newbies unless they ask for the genre specifically, but since the door is open, here's an excellent one: Rob Brown, Joe Morris and Whit Dickey - Youniverse - Alto sax, guitar and drums, respectively. The improvisations are freewheeling indeed, but what always gets me is how remarkable the tunes are. I think it might rate among the Top 20-30 jazz records of the '90s. It might be interesting to hear if the OP has been digging anything recommended thus far. That helps posters know what direction to go in.

The Altantic box set of Ornette Coleman is another awesome collection!

I'll be picking up Youniverse shortly...

 

[tru blu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Know Talent /img/forum/go_quote.gif The Altantic box set of Ornette Coleman is another awesome collection!

Agreed, but one thing: I always try to find out the sequence of the original albums and program the music that way. The Shape of Jazz To Come, Change Of The Century and Ornette! are truly amazing the way they were originally conceived.

 

[jaduffy007]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tru blu /img/forum/go_quote.gif Agreed, but one thing: I always try to find out the sequence of the original albums and program the music that way. The Shape of Jazz To Come, Change Of The Century and Ornette! are truly amazing the way they were originally conceived.

I'm a huge Ornette fan. The albums you listed are works of genius. I would add "Free Jazz", "This is our Music" and the "At The Golden Circle" releases to complete my favorite Ornette albums. The fairly recent "Sound Grammar" is worthwhile too imo.

If "we" are moving into the realm of "free jazz"....I can't recommend enough a film called, "Imagine The Sound" from the early 80's (i think?). Here is a handful of what I would consider essential free jazz ....

Eric Dolphy's "Out To Lunch", "Outward Bound"
Jaki Byard: "Out Front"
Archie Shepp: The Way Ahead (Walter Davis on piano...great stuff)
Bobby Hutcherson: Dialogue
Wayne Shorter: The All Seeing Eye
Jackie McLean: Destination Out!, Let Freedom Ring
Cecil Taylor: Conquistador, Jazz Advance, Unit Structures. (Cecil did great stuff in the mid-70s too)
Charles Mingus: Pithecanthropus Erectus
Andrew Hill: "Point of Departure", "Black Fire", "Judgement"
Coltrane: Ascension, Sun Ship, Meditations, Interstellar Space, The Olatunji Concert ....ok, any post 1964 album
Albert Ayler: Spiritual Unity
Peter Brotzmann: Machine Gun
Art Ensemble of Chicago: BapTizum, Urban Bushmen
Sun Ra: The Magic City, anything from his NYC period (60s)

More of a sideman, but Bill Dixon's trumpet playing with Archie Shepp and Cecil Taylor ...wow. (see Conquistador by Cecil Taylor).

Plenty of great free jazz still happening today.

 

[bigshot]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tru blu /img/forum/go_quote.gif If the original makers of the jazz being sampled nowadays had "rejected entertainment value" (as was suggested), then there would be absolutely no reason for DJs and whomever to go looking for the work of Art Blakey, etc.

The reason DJs sample older stuff is because they have no really valuable skill of their own. They need to ride on the coattails of people who actually *could* play an instrument and write a song. Instead of ripping apart other people's art and putting it back together like a jigsaw from bits, these DJs should be learning to create something from the ground up themselves.

The remix of Strange Fruit is the biggest slap in the face to jazz that I've ever witnessed.

See ya
Steve

 

[tru blu]

Whatever, man...

 

[Know Talent]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigshot /img/forum/go_quote.gif The reason DJs sample older stuff is because they have no really valuable skill of their own. They need to ride on the coattails of people who actually *could* play an instrument and write a song. Instead of ripping apart other people's art and putting it back together like a jigsaw from bits, these DJs should be learning to create something from the ground up themselves. The remix of Strange Fruit is the biggest slap in the face to jazz that I've ever witnessed. See ya Steve

I agree largely with what you say but the only reason such acts persist is the ambivalence regarding musicianship in the population who listen to and purchase their works.

Anyone who feels Kenny G a better musician over the likes of Charlie Parker should be stripped, bound and gagged, doused with elmers glue, rolled in anchovies and dropped off at the penguin exhibit at the local zoo.

 

[jaduffy007]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Know Talent /img/forum/go_quote.gif I agree largely with what you say but the only reason such acts persist is the ambivalence regarding musicianship in the population who listen to and purchase their works. Anyone who feels Kenny G a better musician over the likes of Charlie Parker should be stripped, bound and gagged, doused with elmers glue, rolled in anchovies and dropped off at the penguin exhibit at the local zoo.

lol...while I agree...I thought I might share ...

I had a session with Kenny G...probably 15 years ago now. I saw him walk in and I was thinking..."are you f'ing kidding me?" Then Kenny blew a freakin' awesome solo...and another...and another. I should also mention, he was an incredibly nice, humble guy. I learned a good lesson that day.

 

[bigshot]

The problem with music today isn't that there aren't great musicians. The problem is that great musicians aren't at the forefront any more. It's hard to have a vital musical culture when the whole scene is so fragmented and the few great musicians who do get heard only get to perform well off mike.

That's the principle difference between the past and today. In the past, people valued skill, innovation and entertainment. Everyone was trying to outdo each other to "build a better mousetrap", not just industrialists and inventors, but architects, filmmakers, musicians and designers as well.

See ya
Steve

 

[tru blu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaduffy007 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Then Kenny G blew a freakin' awesome solo...and another...and another. I should also mention, he was an incredibly nice, humble guy. I learned a good lesson that day.

Actually, that's the dirty-little secret about quite a few of the pop-jazz guys: They really can play, but choose not to. Not enough money in it. I heard the Yellowjackets' saxist Bob Mintzer sit in with a big band at a festival once, and he out-blew half the cats onstage. Same with the late Art Porter and keyboardist Joe Sample of the Crusaders. And Bob James even made some avant-garde piano albums in the '60s—albeit not very good ones.

 

[Know Talent]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaduffy007 /img/forum/go_quote.gif lol...while I agree...I thought I might share ... I had a session with Kenny G...probably 15 years ago now. I saw him walk in and I was thinking..."are you f'ing kidding me?" Then Kenny blew a freakin' awesome solo...and another...and another. I should also mention, he was an incredibly nice, humble guy. I learned a good lesson that day.

I understand what you're saying but what about arti-$$$-tic integrity?

Why lower your standards...why sell out???

 

[tru blu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Know Talent /img/forum/go_quote.gif Why lower your standards...why sell out???

Unfortunately, the reasons for that are obvious. I've been waiting decades for George Benson, still one of the greatest natural blues improvisers on the planet, to make a jazz record I could recommend to people. I'm pretty sure it's not coming...

I didn't want this thread to end without mentioning another ensemble, though: the Jimmy Giuffre 3. There were a few incarnations, but I really dig the one with pianist Paul Bley and bassist Steve Swallow (try 1961 or the live disc Flight, Bremen 1961), and the one featuring Jim Hall on guitar. Gorgeous chamber-style jazz that splits the difference between swing, bop and avant-garde.

YouTube - Jimmy Giuffre

 

[ralphp@optonline]

I've scanned through all and read some of this very fine thread and I'm shocked to find only one mention of the great Billie Holiday, no mentions of Count Basie, Benny Carter, Lester Young and Ben Webster and limited mentions of Coleman Hawkins, Fats Waller, Art Blakey, Clifford Brown and Max Roach.

The incredible tandem of Billie Holiday and Lester Young is "beyond category" (as Ellington might have said).

Benny Carter was among the first tier of composers and arrangers from the swing era.

The Count Basie big band was also among the top tier of swing era big bands, if not the premier big band from this period.

Ben Webster and Coleman Hawkins defined the sound of the tenor sax until players like Sonny Rollins and John Coltrane came along.

The Clifford Brown Max Roach Quintet along with Art Blakey and the Jazz Messengers plus the first great Miles Davis Quintet all defined the sound of hard bop in the mid to late fifties.

Oh and just for good measure, let's not forget the unforgettable Nina Simone.