[Loftprojection]

Hello, I would like to connect my iPhone to my tube amp but I dislike digital sounding DACs. My desktop DAC is the MHDT Orchid which is a NOS tube DAC. It is not dark, overly warm sounding or with rolled off highs, it is rather lush, sweet, analog and musical sounding if that means anything, at least it does to me.

So I'm looking for a USB dongle DAC with that type of sound signature. It can be up to the size an iPhone and I already have a Chord Mojo that I find very very good but not quite the sound signature I'm looking for.

Many thanks.

 

[msing539]

Maybe something like the Cayin RU6--I haven't heard it, but it's on my list.

 

[Loftprojection]

Maybe something like the Cayin RU6--I haven't heard it, but it's on my list.

Thanks, an interesting proposition, ideally I'd like to have a line out into feed my dedicated amp but the Cayin seems to have the type of sound signature I'm looking for.

 

[RichP]

A friend has one, I heard it and it was very nice. However, I remember him saying it worked better running off a computer USB because the phone doesnt have enough power output to run the unit correctly.

 

[Loftprojection]

A friend has one, I heard it and it was very nice. However, I remember him saying it worked better running off a computer USB because the phone doesnt have enough power output to run the unit correctly.

I'm not surprised, I think ideally the DAC needs it own battery specially since I'm not really looking for a small dongle but rather something that can be the size of Woo Wa8.

 

[gregorio]

I would like to connect my iPhone to my tube amp but I dislike digital sounding DACs. My desktop DAC is the MHDT Orchid which is a NOS tube DAC. It is not dark, overly warm sounding or with rolled off highs, it is rather lush, sweet, analog and musical sounding if that means anything, at least it does to me.

So I'm looking for a USB dongle DAC with that type of sound signature.

The vast majority of DACs are just designed to convert digital to analogue accurately (IE. With very high fidelity). So they don’t sound digital and they deliberately avoid the noise/distortion of analogue recording/media. A few audiophile DACs are designed not to be high fidelity, some NOS and/or tube DACs for example but you’re not going to find any dongles that do that. Maybe someone will come up with some software to add that type of distortion if they figure there’s enough of a demand for deliberately low fidelity but I presume it won’t be easy to intercept the digital audio stream to the dongle in many cases.

It can be up to the size an iPhone and I already have a Chord Mojo that I find very very good but not quite the sound signature I'm looking for.

That wouldn’t really be a dongle then. The problem with a larger DAC unit is that it would almost invariably require more power than a tiny DAC chip in a small dongle, which is impractical.

G

 

[Loftprojection]

The vast majority of DACs are just designed to convert digital to analogue accurately (IE. With very high fidelity). So they don’t sound digital and they deliberately avoid the noise/distortion of analogue recording/media. A few audiophile DACs are designed not to be high fidelity, some NOS and/or tube DACs for example but you’re not going to find any dongles that do that. Maybe someone will come up with some software to add that type of distortion if they figure there’s enough of a demand for deliberately low fidelity but I presume it won’t be easy to intercept the digital audio stream to the dongle in many cases.

That wouldn’t really be a dongle then. The problem with a larger DAC unit is that it would almost invariably require more power than a tiny DAC chip in a small dongle, which is impractical.

G

To me it's not about high fidelity, it's about what sounds good or not to people. There is definitely a bunch of people that like the sound of DACs that are not based on chips like ESS, ROHM or even AKM produce. For some reason, distortion, fidelity or whatever, those old NOS chips have a sweeter sound and to some extent new R2R DACs seem to have a similar sound signature, at least from what I read because I've never heard one.

I'm with with you that a non powered dongle will not satisfy me! haha. I should have said that I'm looking for a somewhat easily transportable through the house battery operated DAC that is sweet sounding like my MHDT Orchid. I guess that does not exist...yet! hahaha

 

[gregorio]

To me it's not about high fidelity, it's about what sounds good or not to people.

Generally, what sounds good to people is high fidelity and of course the definition of an audiophile is someone who tries to achieve the highest fidelity. Apparently this doesn’t seem to apply to everyone, some seem to prefer lower fidelity. A DAC’s job is obviously to convert digital audio data back into an analogue signal and for 25 years or more they’ve been able to do that accurately enough to be audibly transparent.

For some reason, distortion, fidelity or whatever, those old NOS chips have a sweeter sound and to some extent new R2R DACs seem to have a similar sound signature, at least from what I read because I've never heard one.

NOS DACs effectively break the rules of digital reconstruction and are not accurate. They have high frequency roll-off which is typically quite audible and ultrasonic artefacts which can also cause audible issues (IMD for example). To most people that would sound less “sweet” but of course different people have different perceptions/preferences. You could try a typically accurate DAC and apply EQ to emulate the Mid and HF losses of a NOS DAC, if that’s what you like?

G

 

[Loftprojection]

Not sure you ever heard a well implemented NOS DAC like MHDT is making or even better some very high priced DACs from a select few manufacturers that still use NOS chips. Yes you are right that there can be a few "artefacts" in some extremely short occurrences of very specific songs, but it is always just an instant that you barely notice, it is never going on for many seconds. The NOS chip DAC does not sound rolled off at all, in fact it has as much detail as what I've heard from a couple of ESS based DACs but it is presented in a "sweeter" fashion if that makes any sense.

I guess it is the same with tube vs SS amps, vinyl vs CD/Flac... People that like extreme and measured accuracy find tube amps mediocre while a lot of people like myself find tube amps magical, sweet and extremely satisfying.

Ho well, anyways, I think my search for a transportable battery operated DAC is not over, or at least it may not end until someone comes up with a new old sounding device! hahaha

 

[manueljenkin]

Is cayin ru6 something that might interest you?

Also, the choice of digital filter can change the output noticeably. On akm dacs I like the super slow filters, if you have dacs that allow filter swapping you can try changing those.

 

[gregorio]

Not sure you ever heard a well implemented NOS DAC …

There’s really no such thing, that statement is effectively an oxymoron because the fundamental theory of NOS DACs is essentially broken/faulty to start with, as they do not comply with the basic rules of digital audio.

Yes you are right that there can be a few "artefacts" in some extremely short occurrences of very specific songs, but it is always just an instant that you barely notice, it is never going on for many seconds.

IMD artefacts are going to depend to a large degree on the downstream equipment (amps and HPs) and how they cope with the spurious ultrasonic content but the mid/high freq roll-off is going to be constant with standard sample rate material.

I guess it is the same with tube vs SS amps, vinyl vs CD/Flac... People that like extreme and measured accuracy find tube amps mediocre while a lot of people like myself find tube amps magical, sweet and extremely satisfying.

No, it’s quite different to tube vs SS amps for example. Some tube amps are audibly transparent, others add audible distortion which is “euphonic” and therefore some people like them. There’s nothing “magical” about this, it’s been measured and well known for many (at least 5) decades. NOS DACs don’t add euphonic distortion.

Your preferences/perceptions are of course yours and there’s nothing wrong with liking/preferring lower fidelity reproduction.

G

 

[hakunamakaka]

Hello, I would like to connect my iPhone to my tube amp but I dislike digital sounding DACs. My desktop DAC is the MHDT Orchid which is a NOS tube DAC. It is not dark, overly warm sounding or with rolled off highs, it is rather lush, sweet, analog and musical sounding if that means anything, at least it does to me.

So I'm looking for a USB dongle DAC with that type of sound signature. It can be up to the size an iPhone and I already have a Chord Mojo that I find very very good but not quite the sound signature I'm looking for.

Many thanks.

I'm sorry to disappoint you, but you will not find good R2R, tubey sounding dongle. Good R2R/Tube based dacs are expensive. For such portability Mojo is your best bet and tier above of what dongles can offer. Instead of hunting for a dongle I would look for a used Poly to go with Mojo. Be aware that Mojo is very sensitive to any noise coming from the source. I yield significant improvements with mojo just by switching to optical interface via adapter from my laptop, more so when i replace my laptop with budget Zen stream

 

[Loftprojection]

I'm sorry to disappoint you, but you will not find good R2R, tubey sounding dongle. Good R2R/Tube based dacs are expensive. For such portability Mojo is your best bet and tier above of what dongles can offer. Instead of hunting for a dongle I would look for a used Poly to go with Mojo. Be aware that Mojo is very sensitive to any noise coming from the source. I yield significant improvements with mojo just by switching to optical interface via adapter from my laptop, more so when i replace my laptop with budget Zen stream

Yes thanks, I figured that by now! Hahaha

In fact I have evolved my thinking and I have a better definition of my need. You are right with the Mojo, but unfortunately I have one and just like the ESS internal DAC in my Woo WA8 amp, the sound signature is not really my taste. It’s too bad because the Mojo is really good sounding but just doesn’t correspond to my taste.

What I am really looking for is a battery operated DAC that doesn’t have to be a dongle, as long as it is on battery and I can pick it up with my Woo WA8 amp and move easily in different rooms of the house, it will suit my need.

The Chord Hugo2 would be the ideal size and functions, it is battery operated and it has a line out to feed my WA8 amp. However I am afraid it will sound like Mojo and I will be dissapointed.

The Cayin RU6 dongle could have an interesting sound for me but it does not have a line out and it would probably not be able to best the internal DAC in my WA8.

I know, I’m picky and difficult! Hahaha. Maybe the device I’m looking for does not exist yet but there is soooo much stuff in the audio world that sometimes when you ask a question here then some stuff you didn’t know about pops up and suprises you out of nowhere!

 

[manueljenkin]

You mean like ifi idsd Diablo? Or bakoon hpa01?

The Diablo can do NOS

 

[Loftprojection]

You mean like ifi idsd Diablo? Or bakoon hpa01?

The Diablo can do NOS

Yes thanks, I guess Diablo is the type of device I'm looking for but from what I've been able to read it doesn't seem to have the smooth and sweet sound signature type I like so much.

I just saw as well that Shanling has a new H7 DAC/AMP based on an AKM chip and with a dedicated line out. Shanling usually has an interesting sound and AKM chips definitely is more towards what I like then ESS in terms of DAC sound.

Also Xduoo announced some kind of transformer transportable DAC/AMP with removable modules for different DAC flavors to satisfy different sound signature. I haven't read the details yet but this is interesting as well.

Ho well, maybe at the end of the day what I'm looking for is already out there! hahaha