[FreedomG]

I'll make this short. I know nothing of high end audio. I got a pair of HD700's last month for practically free.
 
I'm really interested in getting a DAC/Amp set from Schiit.
 
 
 
I was going to get the Bifrost Uber USB DAC
 
But which AMP? Lyr 2? or Valhalla 2?
 
 
_______
 
I've always only done mid-range audio. This is my first set of big cans. (Kinda nervous)
 
To make things a bit more complicated, I wanted to game on them. So I wanted an Analog DAC so I can hook it up to my sound card and get the "Gaming" effects. Is that even intelligent?

 

[ProtegeManiac]

 
To make things a bit more complicated, I wanted to game on them. So I wanted an Analog DAC so I can hook it up to my sound card and get the "Gaming" effects. Is that even intelligent?

 

First of all, that doesn't make sense - there's no such thing as an "analogue DAC." DAC means Digital to Analogue Converter so half of it will always be a digital input, running it through a DAC chip, then sending out an analogue output.

 

As for gaming, you need a soundcard - whether literally a card in an expansion slot, built into the motherboard, or a USB sound"card" - that can output digital SPDIF. That would be coax 75ohm or optical/toslink on most that isn't pro-audio gear. The DSP chip that applies the effects sends them out of the soundcard still in digital to be decoded by the DAC.
 
 
 

Originally Posted by FreedomG /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
I was going to get the Bifrost Uber USB DAC
 
But which AMP? Lyr 2? or Valhalla 2?

 

It depends on what other headphones you plan on getting. If at any point in the future you will get a lower impedance, likely lower sensitivity/efficiency headphone, go for the Lyr since it still has a lot of power even when driving a high impedance load. The Valhalla2 even though it works better on low impedance, lower sensitivity/efficiency headphones is still going to encounter more issues driving them than an amp like the Lyr would when driving a high impedance headphone, so that can limit your options later on.

 

That said if you're going to get a lower impedance headphone later for more casual listening on, say, Grados, then might as well get the Valhalla2.

 

[FreedomG]

   

First of all, that doesn't make sense - there's no such thing as an "analogue DAC." DAC means Digital to Analogue Converter so half of it will always be a digital input, running it through a DAC chip, then sending out an analogue output.

 

As for gaming, you need a soundcard - whether literally a card in an expansion slot, built into the motherboard, or a USB sound"card" - that can output digital SPDIF. That would be coax 75ohm or optical/toslink on most that isn't pro-audio gear. The DSP chip that applies the effects sends them out of the soundcard still in digital to be decoded by the DAC.
 
 
 

It depends on what other headphones you plan on getting. If at any point in the future you will get a lower impedance, likely lower sensitivity/efficiency headphone, go for the Lyr since it still has a lot of power even when driving a high impedance load. The Valhalla2 even though it works better on low impedance, lower sensitivity/efficiency headphones is still going to encounter more issues driving them than an amp like the Lyr would when driving a high impedance headphone, so that can limit your options later on.

 

That said if you're going to get a lower impedance headphone later for more casual listening on, say, Grados, then might as well get the Valhalla2.

 
Wow this is a lot of information, thank you.
 
So with the DAC I should just use the USB option instead of plugging it into the S/PDIF on my sound card?

Also I am planning to stick with my HD700s. So which amp then? It's 150 ohms
 
If the Lyr is a lot better I have no problem paying for it.

 

[ProtegeManiac]

 
So with the DAC I should just use the USB option instead of plugging it into the S/PDIF on my sound card?

 

If you use USB your soundcard will be rendered useless. The DSP chip can't send processed signals back to the motherboard to exit via USB - you need to use SPDIF on the soundcard (or the motherboard, in case you're using a late model red motherboard with a SoundBlaster DSP chip on it).
 

 
Also I am planning to stick with my HD700s. So which amp then? It's 150 ohms
 
If the Lyr is a lot better I have no problem paying for it.

 

If you can spend the extra hundered bucks with no hits to your finances then might as well get the Lyr, it will work with pretty much anything but electrostats so even if you don't feel the need for getting a second headphone now, at least at any point in the future you can do so without spending on the amp again.

 

[FreedomG]

Hey man, thanks for all the info and advice. I'll get the Lyr.
 
I appreciate it a lot.

Thank for helping this noob

 

[superjawes]

It depends on what other headphones you plan on getting. If at any point in the future you will get a lower impedance, likely lower sensitivity/efficiency headphone, go for the Lyr since it still has a lot of power even when driving a high impedance load. The Valhalla2 even though it works better on low impedance, lower sensitivity/efficiency headphones is still going to encounter more issues driving them than an amp like the Lyr would when driving a high impedance headphone, so that can limit your options later on.

That said if you're going to get a lower impedance headphone later for more casual listening on, say, Grados, then might as well get the Valhalla2.

Um...just so it's clear, Valhalla 2 drives high impedance loads better than Lyr 2. In fact, I think Valhalla was basically designed to drive high impedance loads...at the very least it was meant to be an all-tube design, and tubes tend to work better for high impedance cans.

Lyr is the more versatile amp because it has tons and tons of power into low impedance, but it still has a fair bit of headroom into high impedance loads.

(This may have been what you meant, but I figured that a clarification couldn't hurt.)

To OP: yeah, Lyr is probably a good choice. Neither amp has power into 150 Ohms listed on Schiit's site, but as I explained before, Valhalla is REALLY good with high impedance cans (300 or 600 Ohms) and not so great with low impedance cans, even with the 2nd gen upgrades. Lyr can just do everything, and it's 2nd gen upgrade gave it a lower noise floor, which makes it usable with very sensitive IEMs.

 

[FreedomG]

Um...just so it's clear, Valhalla 2 drives high impedance loads better than Lyr 2. In fact, I think Valhalla was basically designed to drive high impedance loads...at the very least it was meant to be an all-tube design, and tubes tend to work better for high impedance cans.

Lyr is the more versatile amp because it has tons and tons of power into low impedance, but it still has a fair bit of headroom into high impedance loads.

(This may have been what you meant, but I figured that a clarification couldn't hurt.)

To OP: yeah, Lyr is probably a good choice. Neither amp has power into 150 Ohms listed on Schiit's site, but as I explained before, Valhalla is REALLY good with high impedance cans (300 or 600 Ohms) and not so great with low impedance cans, even with the 2nd gen upgrades. Lyr can just do everything, and it's 2nd gen upgrade gave it a lower noise floor, which makes it usable with very sensitive IEMs.

 
So is HD 700's 150 ohm resistance considered high or low?
 
I'm not planning on using IEMs or anything else.
 
If I'm sticking to the HD 700's which one would sound better? Just for these cans.

 

[superjawes]

So is HD 700's 150 ohm resistance considered high or low?

Well, like I said, Schiit don't list 150 Ohms. "High" is typically considered 300+ Ohms, and when we say "low", I think we generally mean 50 Ohm and below. 150 Ohm is certainly higher than many, but it still isn't quite the 300 or 600 Ohm we see on other headphones.

I'm not planning on using IEMs or anything else.

You say that now, but you are on HeadFi...there's a reason we welcome people with the line: "Sorry about your wallet."

(I'm mostly kidding.)

If I'm sticking to the HD 700's which one would sound better? Just for these cans.

I personally can't tell you (never heard a Lyr, never heard the HD700). The only way you would know for sure is if you try it yourself. If you want more amp pairing opinions, you might find a thread for the HD700 in one of the subforums (full-size headphones or Summit-fi). At least you'll find more HD700 owners who might not be watching this sub.

Without getting into how things sound, Lyr really is one of the safest bets if it won't destroy your wallet. It will probably have more power at 150 Ohm than a Valhalla (just my guess), it will still perform well if you try 300+ Ohm headphones later, and it will have even more power for headphones 50 Ohms an below. Also, there is the benefit of only having two tubes. One of my Valhalla tubes bit the dust recently, and I replaced all four for $40. A Lyr replacement pair will only set you back $20.

 

[ProtegeManiac]

Um...just so it's clear, Valhalla 2 drives high impedance loads better than Lyr 2. In fact, I think Valhalla was basically designed to drive high impedance loads...at the very least it was meant to be an all-tube design, and tubes tend to work better for high impedance cans.

 

See, the way sentence structure works is that I mentioned first how the Valhalla drives low impedance headphones, and then the pronoun "them" refers to those low impedance headphones. Then, I said that Valahalla's ability for such - again, I'm referring to the Valhalla driving low impedance headphones by that "such" - is comparatively more likely to have issues compared to how the Lyr would drive a high impedance load, which in this case is 150ohms (maybe 300ohms, perhaps, but as far as this thread is concerned, clearly) not 600ohms.

 

 
In a simple diagram, what I meant was:
Valhalla on lower impedance load < Lyr on high impedance load

 

And again, the context of that was depending on what he might buy later on, and given he has an HD700, I was postulating the possibility that he might at some point get a lower impedance headphone, whether something more for casual listening (like an SR325) or something that would have a flatter curve in most other parts of the response range (HE400i). As it is he's sure not to buy anything else but it won't bankrupt him to spend another $100 on the Lyr, but personally knowing how upgraditis can kick in, it's the safer choice given what I explained above.

 

[superjawes]

See, the way sentence structure works is that I mentioned first how the Valhalla drives low impedance headphones, and then the pronoun "them" refers to those low impedance headphones. Then, I said that Valahalla's ability for such - again, I'm referring to the Valhalla driving low impedance headphones by that "such" - is comparatively more likely to have issues compared to how the Lyr would drive a high impedance load, which in this case is 150ohms (maybe 300ohms, perhaps, but as far as this thread is concerned, clearly) not 600ohms.




In a simple diagram, what I meant was:

Valhalla on lower impedance load < Lyr on high impedance load

And again, the context of that was depending on what he might buy later on, and given he has an HD700, I was postulating the possibility that he might at some point get a lower impedance headphone, whether something more for casual listening (like an SR325) or something that would have a flatter curve in most other parts of the response range (HE400i). As it is he's sure not to buy anything else but it won't bankrupt him to spend another $100 on the Lyr, but personally knowing how upgraditis can kick in, it's the safer choice given what I explained above.

Well looking at this:

It depends on what other headphones you plan on getting. If at any point in the future you will get a lower impedance, likely lower sensitivity/efficiency headphone, go for the Lyr since it still has a lot of power even when driving a high impedance load. The Valhalla2 even though it works better on low impedance, lower sensitivity/efficiency headphones is still going to encounter more issues driving them than an amp like the Lyr would when driving a high impedance headphone, so that can limit your options later on.

It almost sounds like you're saying that the Valhalla 2 is better on low impedance headphones. I just wanted to clarify and make sure that Lyr > Valhalla for low impedance. We're in agreement, but the bolded sentence structure confuses that point.

 

[ProtegeManiac]

Well looking at this:
It almost sounds like you're saying that the Valhalla 2 is better on low impedance headphones. I just wanted to clarify and make sure that Lyr > Valhalla for low impedance. We're in agreement, but the bolded sentence structure confuses that point.

 
I was referring to Schiit's note about how the Valhalla2 works better on low impedance cans than the stereotypical OTL design.

 

[DLR Group]

Hi All. I have the HD 700's and got my Schiit Valhalla 2 in a week ago today. It is a remarkable amp and paired with the HD 700 is awesome combo. There is more than enough headroom and it drives these cans like crazy. I like my music clean and loud. I only have to turn the volume to 50% or 12 noon on the dial and it is plenty loud on most music. Some classical I need to go higher. I've turned the Valhalla 2 to 75% with no noise, no distortion, nothing but clean sound. In fact, with music ready to play through JRiver MC, my Oppo DAC on, I can turn the dial on the Schiit all the way and it is a dead black no noise floor. I mean, 0 noise which is surprising.
I plan on writing a lengthy review about the amp in general in the near future. Just like the gentleman above, there are not many reviews on this particular amp, and especially using the HD 700 combo.

 

[vitalogyx]

While my Valhalla 2 did great with the HD800 when I first purchased it in 2016, I wasn’t happy with the fact that the combo had lots of energy in higher frequencies but lacked in the bottom end.

I then bought a LC 2.0 made by Cavalli Audio and went Balanced and never looked back.
Bass from tracks that had bass on my HD800 was surprising. Micro detail from almost every track.

Now I am looking to put the Valhalla 2.0 to use with a HD700 but still hesitant.

This thread had encouraged me to move forward.

I’ve started bidding on eBay for a HD700

 

[Zhangmikoto]

So now Lyr 3 had been published, is this a major upgrade? Since Lyr 2 on eBay are now around $200 to $250 and Lyr 3 is $500.