[SoundCarrier]

Hi,

A few months ago I bought a pair of AKG K701 headphones. I love audio and was so excited about getting them, but to be honest I've been very disappointed

I find them to be harsh, cold and lacking in low end. To hear any sort of detail in the music, they have to be run at high volume levels, which I really don't like.

I know that these are very highly regarded headphones, so either they are just not to my taste or there's something else wrong (possibly the amplification). I would *really* appreciate your opinions this, as I'm at the point of selling the 701s and treating my brief foray into the world of high end headphones as an expensive mistake

My current setup:

Emu 1212m -> Balanced Cables -> Tapco 6306 Mixer -> K701

The 6306 mixer is basically a budget Mackie mixer which cost around £70 new. (I make music and use the mixer to control the volume of my main monitors.) I assume that its headphone amp is terrible, and not doing the 701's justice. I'm sure that some of you are recoiling in horror right now

Could the problems I've been having (cold, harsh sound, lack of bass, no detail at low volumes) be explained by the headphone amp? Could a good amp make such a big difference to the sound? I appreciate that these may be slightly stupid/obvious questions for you, but I'm new to the head-fi way!

I'm sure you will appreciate that after my initial disappointment, I'm reluctant to spend even more money unless there's a good chance that it will solve the problem.

I read about the Benchmark DAC1, which sounded very interesting, as it would allow me to get rid of the 6306 mixer, giving my main monitors the benefit of the new DAC and freeing up the analogue outs on the 1212m for other things. However, I've read on this site that some people find the DAC1->k701 combo to be overly harsh, which is exactly what I'm trying to get away from!

So, the question: could I buy a DAC and amp (or maybe a DAC containing a good amp?) for under £600 which will transform my headphones?

Sorry for the long post. Any help is much appreciated.

 

[Dork Knight]

Welcome to Head-Fi, Sorry about your Wallet.

The K701 really does need a good amp IMO, I have a pretty beefy amp and I still need to turn the volume up for the K701 so I don't find it good at low volume level.

For your budget of £600 you could actually get something pretty decent, perhaps a Zhaolu D 2.5 DAC (with which you could go the ZapFilter upgrade path) and a Tube Amp from WooAudio or an X-Can just as an example.

You may even find that changing cans may better suite your ears :unsure:

 

[sschmeichel]

another question is, are they burned-in? The 701s really need about 300hrs before they sound like good headphones... just read all the reviews here... if it still sucks after 300 hrs, then talk about changes?

 

[SoundCarrier]

Hi,

Thanks for the replies.

@Dork Knight: Thanks for the suggestions. I'll do some reading. It's interesting that you still find that you have to turn up the volume, even with a big amp. It would be good if I could find somewhere in London that would allow me to demo some amps before buying one...

@sschmeichel: I'd say that they've had about 250hrs of burn in, so I'll leave them running for the next week and see if there is any change. When I auditioned them, I'd heard a lot of people talk about the long burn in time which made me think that some their harsh characteristics would fade over time. This has happened to a degree, but not as much as I'd hoped.

 

[aerowing]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoundCarrier /img/forum/go_quote.gif I'd heard a lot of people talk about the long burn in time which made me think that some their harsh characteristics would fade over time. This has happened to a degree, but not as much as I'd hoped.

Definitely happend to my k701 during first couple hour of burn in but maybe not so much after 100 hours.

in my opinion k701 is a very hard to drive, matching a good amp with it should definitely improve the sound. k701 requires high current and high power, some say you need amp with instaneous current capabality of >1 amp.

 

[jcx]

K701, maybe not >1 amp but still a lot more than a common monolithic op amp stage you'd expect in a mixer:

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/showpo...88&postcount=6

I would consider a cheaper buffer-in-loop style ss amp and another good set of cans - headphones make much more difference than basically competent amps once you have enough I,V to avoid clipping

 

[piper78]

The 701's definitely need an amp. I noticed a world of difference when I added an amp to my setup, almost night and day comparison.

 

[LeonvB]

How do the K701's sound straight out of the 1212? Just check this before doing anything. Without a good amp the K701 might sound dull, but I've never heard them really harsh. It might be you simply don't like their signature, or something in the chain messes up the sound.

 

[ElDanno]

The K701's combine well with a NOS Dac like the Lite DAC-AH and a warm amp. They shouldn't sound harsh though.

The best bet is to start a mini-meet in London in the Local/Regional meets forum to trial other equipment. I'm sure you would get some interest and helpful responses.

 

[Manny Calavera]

They absolutely need an amp,as do the K601's ! No amp ? Then expect microscopic sound that will only slightly be alleviated by maxing out the volume on them.

After I added an Ibasso T1,my K 601's sounded great and full,with some warmth and oomph to them.I have found just about all AKG's I have heard need an amp except the newer 240S.

The impedance on my K601's is supposed to be 120 Ohms,but in reality its a lot more (and sounds a lot more....) like 250 to 400+ Ohms

I have found the opposite on the UE's,Grado's,and Beyer's I have owned or auditioned.This seems to be the same with my Senn's.

 

[diego]

Hello SoundCarrier,
I agree with everyone here, my 701s sound much better with an amp and also driven by my tube amp they are not harsh at all. With my LaRocco (solid state) they sound a bit harsher but less than my Sennheisers HD 595 did with the same amp.

Regards,
Diego

 

[rincewind]

Amp definitely needed. The K701 are a gnat's d1ck to the side of being lean (ie: very neutral but some people might consider them a tad lacking if they are used to woolly bass). First of all, you should make sure they have at least 300 hours on em. Mine went through some weird changes (both for the better and worse) until they had about 300 hours, when they settled into a very nice sound.

As far as DACs and amps, you have two routes:
1) (the more common around here): Get a DAC like the Zhaolu which will emphasize even more the apparent 'harshness' you are hearing, but many believe it to be an increase in detail. Then you get a tube-output based amp to add a bit more warmth to the overall sound again, and many people find this works.

2) Get a NOS DAC which will not any hint of harshness to the overall sound (in fact, it will most likely make it a teensy bit warmer, which I found balanced out the K701 nicely). Then you buy an amp that is as tonally 'balanced' as possible, or at least imparts as little of it's own 'flavour' as possible. I've found the Headamp Gilmore Lite to do the job. NOS DAC > neutral amp > K701 will have a VERY agile sound with deep bass and relatively colour-free (but not "cold" - just showing exactly what's on the CD/music). Existing warmth on a CD will come through, anything recorded harsh will just sound that way (regardless of setup).

 

[SoundCarrier]

So many helpful responses! Thanks for all the replies

It's good to know that the K701s aren't performing at their best, and that an amp would help.

The DACS you mention all sound interesting. I'll have a closer look at all of them. Do you know if anyone sells the Lite DAC-AH in the UK?

I had a chance to audition some HD 650s, and I have to say that I liked their sound. To my ear they don't sound quite as neutral or detailed as the k701s, but I would describe their sound as more "pleasing". I know that this down to personal taste though.

Hmm.... I'm kind of torn between getting one of the DACs / amps you mention to improve my k701s, or replacing the K701s with some HD650s and getting the Benchmark Audio DAC1 (as it seems that the DAC1 doesn't pair well with the 701s, but hopefully should perform better with the HD 650s).

The DAC1 is very attractive to me as I can also use it to control my studio monitors. It looks like most other DACs don't have a volume control or balanced outputs. I can totally understand why, as they aren't designed primarily for studio use, but these features are very useful to me.


Quote:

Originally Posted by LeonvB /img/forum/go_quote.gif How do the K701's sound straight out of the 1212? Just check this before doing anything.

Good question, but I'm not sure if I can check this. The 1212m only has balanced 1/4" sockets and I don't have a suitable adapter.

Thanks again everyone!

 

[SoundCarrier]

I've just found this thread about the Presonus Central Station.

That sounds like an interesting unit - it has the features which attract me to the DAC1, but seems to pair favourably with k701s. music_man seems to rate the headphone amp in it too. Perhaps this could be another route... get the CS first (thereby getting a DAC, monitor controller and reasonable headphone amp) and then only change my k701s for HD650s if I'm still not happy with their performance.

Decisions, decisions...

 

[jcx]

I don't understand that thread at all - in the review thread:
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=155336

the headphone output is idendtified as a MC33079D op amp - wth no mention of buffering - this op amp is really poor in the current output department given the K701 power demands

The data sheet shows asymetric current limiting at 30 mA on the neg side, not enough to drive the K701 to even 107 dB SPL without clipping distortion - I can't imagine comparing presonus as a headphone amp to the DAC1 which has > 500 mA output