[Copyright]

Recently started building a full digital setup using Audison Gear.  Audison Voce 5.1k amp and Audison Bit Ten D DSP wtih full digital connections.  Now my source idea was the new Sony that plays HighRes but the price is far far to high at 1K best I can find.  I also have two cars with full digital setups I am working on so having something I can move between each car is a plus.  A guy I know recommended using a ibasso dx80 because it has the optical output I would need.  This I could use in both cars and as a portable music device with my headphones.  My question is that I know there are many units out there like this that can play high res (DSD) and Flac etc.  Would this be the ideal one for me and my intentions?  Thank you in advance for any help!!!
 
 
What I need...
 
1. Optical output (A Must)
2. Durability
3. Large storage
4. Easy to see screen
5. long battery life or way to plug into 12V power
6. Something that can play all types of high rez like FLAC and DSD

 

[ProtegeManiac]

  Recently started building a full digital setup using Audison Gear.  Audison Voce 5.1k amp and Audison Bit Ten D DSP wtih full digital connections.  Now my source idea was the new Sony that plays HighRes but the price is far far to high at 1K best I can find.  I also have two cars with full digital setups I am working on so having something I can move between each car is a plus.  A guy I know recommended using a ibasso dx80 because it has the optical output I would need.  This I could use in both cars and as a portable music device with my headphones.  My question is that I know there are many units out there like this that can play high res (DSD) and Flac etc.  Would this be the ideal one for me and my intentions?  Thank you in advance for any help!!!
 
 
What I need...
 
1. Optical output (A Must)
2. Durability
3. Large storage
4. Easy to see screen
5. long battery life or way to plug into 12V power
6. Something that can play all types of high rez like FLAC and DSD

 

I wouldn't really bother with DAPs for car audio, even with optical output, due to ergonomic issues. The DX80 has the optical output port on top and so do many others who have it or even just coaxial. You'll either mount it on the dash with the cable sticking out the top or set it on the cup holder or the passenger seat and basically it will have the ergonomics of a Playstation fishing rod controller. And since you're using optical, which has a tendency to break the glass fibres in the cable, using it that way would mean you'd potentially replace that cable a lot sooner than you think you would.

 

Honestly the more important part in a car audio system is the processor and not the file format, because at least that deals with the fact that you don't drive a Mclaren F1 or a fully customized ///////ALPINE show car (ie, center drive, equidistant to all speakers, which is how you sit at home or how you wear headphones). So as long you have a way to play 320kbps MP3 off a thumb drive or something with the stock receiver (which I assume you don't want to remove, considering you're considering a DAP rather than an adapter to fit an ///////ALPINE 2-DIN with optical output, or the matching processor that uses Ai-Net for control and digital audio transmission), I'd really worry a lot more with having time alignment, crossovers, and a parametric EQ than being able to use high res files without conversion.

 

If not, or if you really want to use high res files as such, I'd explore other options than a DAP, more so since you're spending on a processor like that anyway (and I assume custom molded speaker mounts). Like, rip out the stock system, use an adapter that mounts a small Android tablet on the dash in place of the receiver, but instead of using that as the music player (ie some people have mounted tablets to use Spotify as well as local storage, then sending out digital audio to a DAC, then to an analogue input ADC-DSP-DAC integration processor), use it just as an interface for an Android miniPC like the Minix Neo. Hide that near the Audison amp so you can use a short toslink cable that is neatly tucked in and doesn't move so it doesn't break easily, plus a solid state drive in a USB external enclosure (you could probably put this in a more accessible area). 
 
Windows 10 Intel-powered NUCs have one internal 2.5in drive bay plus some have a spare M.2 slot, but I'm still more into the Android miniPC since 1) you don't need the processing power of an Intel Core processor and 2) it's still better if you can more easily pull the drive out and use it between the two cars each with their own miniPC (or have two drives, whichever, at least it's still easier to take it out and add to the contents).

 

[Copyright]

I should add the ability to stream music and use my phone as a hot spot would be handy as well but not a must.  

 

[Copyright]

 

 

I wouldn't really bother with DAPs for car audio, even with optical output, due to ergonomic issues. The DX80 has the optical output port on top and so do many others who have it or even just coaxial. You'll either mount it on the dash with the cable sticking out the top or set it on the cup holder or the passenger seat and basically it will have the ergonomics of a Playstation fishing rod controller. And since you're using optical, which has a tendency to break the glass fibres in the cable, using it that way would mean you'd potentially replace that cable a lot sooner than you think you would.

 

Honestly the more important part in a car audio system is the processor and not the file format, because at least that deals with the fact that you don't drive a Mclaren F1 or a fully customized ///////ALPINE show car (ie, center drive, equidistant to all speakers, which is how you sit at home or how you wear headphones). So as long you have a way to play 320kbps MP3 off a thumb drive or something with the stock receiver (which I assume you don't want to remove, considering you're considering a DAP rather than an adapter to fit an ///////ALPINE 2-DIN with optical output, or the matching processor that uses Ai-Net for control and digital audio transmission), I'd really worry a lot more with having time alignment, crossovers, and a parametric EQ than being able to use high res files without conversion.

 

If not, or if you really want to use high res files as such, I'd explore other options than a DAP, more so since you're spending on a processor like that anyway (and I assume custom molded speaker mounts). Like, rip out the stock system, use an adapter that mounts a small Android tablet on the dash in place of the receiver, but instead of using that as the music player (ie some people have mounted tablets to use Spotify as well as local storage, then sending out digital audio to a DAC, then to an analogue input ADC-DSP-DAC integration processor), use it just as an interface for an Android miniPC like the Minix Neo. Hide that near the Audison amp so you can use a short toslink cable that is neatly tucked in and doesn't move so it doesn't break easily, plus a solid state drive in a USB external enclosure (you could probably put this in a more accessible area). 
 
Windows 10 Intel-powered NUCs have one internal 2.5in drive bay plus some have a spare M.2 slot, but I'm still more into the Android miniPC since 1) you don't need the processing power of an Intel Core processor and 2) it's still better if you can more easily pull the drive out and use it between the two cars each with their own miniPC (or have two drives, whichever, at least it's still easier to take it out and add to the contents).

 
I already know guys using these is why I ask and they are loved apparently.  Believe me I have been through every idea you have mentioned and have been into car audio and competing in IASCA, MECA and USACi comps for years.  I am big into Sound quality and was hooked in competition when I got my first place in IASCA.  
 
I planned to use a magnet mount to hold it in place like I use for my iphone currently and a cable sticking out is by no means a deal breaker.  The other options you mentioned are far more expensive and would have to be done in both cars to stay in place.  My background is computers and servers so I am very well aware of the Car PC route.  I understand how to make the car sound good but the source unit/material is still one of THE most important items in an SQ system.  
 
I have the rest of my system done and full digital Audison.  The Alpine double din's don't play high resolution audio and only one of my cars has a double din location.. if I was going that route I would run the new Sony in each car and spend 2k$.. or I can use a DAP and get the same results for 1/4 of the price.  
 
The Androild Tablet and Ipad options are common as well but bulky.  My Daily car is a compact piece of sh!t lol.. the good thing is no one knows there is system in the car.  My other car is a Supercharged Mustang that draws a little attention.  Keeping the stock headunit in place connected to my Audison Bit one and having the DAP option will at least appear stock.  I really want to take the path of the DAP as it truly saves me a ton of money and can be used for so much more.  My question is more or less which DAP to get.  Amplified power is no concern to me as 95% of the time it will be using optical.  Storage, file play back, durability, battery life, the ability to stream would be nice as well.
 
Is there an adapter for an iphone that provides optical output?  I would love to stream Tidal over the same optical cable I had planned to use for the DAP... just swap out as needed.  Having to worry about a cable is no big deal and I can use a split up front so if i break it off I just have to replace a short piece and not the whole long run back to the processor (like you mentioned.  It's ashame the Audison Bit play HD is such a flop.   
 
Keep in mind my whole setup will be digital up until the amp it's self before it goes analog.  Optical from source to DSP, digital cat5e from DSP to AMP using Audison FULL DA and then the amp's DAC will convert and toss out the signal to the speakers.  Doing anything analog at the start of this chain would ruin the point of going all digital.
 
Thank you for the reply!  You seem to have some car audio knowledge so that helps me A LOT!

 

[ProtegeManiac]

Originally Posted by Copyright /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
Thank you for the reply!  You seem to have some car audio knowledge so that helps me A LOT!

 

Not so much these days. Traffic here is just hell, I'm always tired and fall asleep in the car, haven't bothered to drive as long as I can Uber around the place. I still have an older model integration processor when I buy a new car though - an //////ALPINE PXE-H660. I don't mind the ADC-DSP-DAC process since I need time alignment and a clean interior (that won't give away to thieves what expensive schiit is all over the car, it's the tweeters that I haven't gotten around yet).

 

Speaking of tweeters, here's mine - Vifa home audio units cut a 2500hz paired with Focal 165VR midwoofers. Haven't really heard anything I liked better than the Polyglass series. Driving these with a Digital Designs C4 (front channels on tweeter, rear on midwoofers, still running full active off a Pioneer CD receiver with built in processor).
 

 
 

 
The Androild Tablet and Ipad options are common as well but bulky. 

 
Have you seen the Model S interior?

On the upside, nobody can complain this is like the iDrive joystick.

 
 

 
My Daily car is a compact piece of sh!t lol.. the good thing is no one knows there is system in the car.  My other car is a Supercharged Mustang that draws a little attention.  Keeping the stock headunit in place connected to my Audison Bit one and having the DAP option will at least appear stock. 

 

One reason why I'm into integration processors. The other reason is that the stock volume knob on the car will still work, although if I go full custom with a tablet and miniPC, I can graft the volume control for the processor into the panel for the tablet mount, and since it's only as an interface for a miniPC, the cheapest, smallest Android tablet will work (I can run Spotify off the miniPC).
 
 
 
 
 

 
I planned to use a magnet mount to hold it in place like I use for my iphone currently and a cable sticking out is by no means a deal breaker.... My background is computers and servers so I am very well aware of the Car PC route.  I understand how to make the car sound good but the source unit/material is still one of THE most important items in an SQ system.  
 
Keep in mind my whole setup will be digital up until the amp it's self before it goes analog.  Optical from source to DSP, digital cat5e from DSP to AMP using Audison FULL DA and then the amp's DAC will convert and toss out the signal to the speakers.  Doing anything analog at the start of this chain would ruin the point of going all digital.

 
Like I said though the thing is in a car audio environment the DSP tricks are more important than GIGO, so even an integration processor (as long as it runs full active) can get more points at EMMA or IASCA compared to, say, a car using those DSP-less Denons and the 2-DIN Panasonic with a tube output stage. In your case though you are using a processor, but I'd still worry less about GIGO and file format (as long as I'm not using anything lower than 320kbps; or if it can read WAV off mass storage if not FLAC).
 

 
Keep in mind my whole setup will be digital up until the amp it's self before it goes analog.  Optical from source to DSP, digital cat5e from DSP to AMP using Audison FULL DA and then the amp's DAC will convert and toss out the signal to the speakers.  Doing anything analog at the start of this chain would ruin the point of going all digital.

 

If I do it full digital up to the processor I'd graft a new panel for a tablet (which will act as an interface for a headless miniPC) and the volume control for the processor, and then the miniPC runs optical into the processor. The thing is if the remote for the processor's volume control is wired you're going to have to hang that somewhere along with the DAP. I'm just not a fan of having expensive gear and they're not set up neatly enough.

 

Put in Japanese robot terms, it's like the Gundam Epyon's high output beam saber still connected by cables to the wrist so it can be continuously powered by the mobile suit's power supply, as opposed to the giant, anti-ship beam sword coming out off the Providence Gundam's forearm (kind of like Wolverine) with the cables hidden under the armour.

 

A less aesthetic and more practical concern for me though is how often I had intoxicated girls in the car back then and cables will just snag easily (on top of dodging the Dad who will yell at us for getting her drunk, never mind I left the party to drive the drunks home), so until now I still don't have anything just hanging in the car.
 

 
Is there an adapter for an iphone that provides optical output?  I would love to stream Tidal over the same optical cable I had planned to use for the DAP... just swap out as needed.  Having to worry about a cable is no big deal and I can use a split up front so if i break it off I just have to replace a short piece and not the whole long run back to the processor (like you mentioned.  It's ashame the Audison Bit play HD is such a flop.   

 
 
Not anything that runs off the iPhone's power supply. Look for a "USB to SPDIF toslink converter," hook it up to the power supply as needed (ex. an inverter, or a 12v input external PSU), then hook up the iPhone to it using the camera USB adapter and then a USB cable.

 

[Copyright]

Nice tweets!  I used a lot of Scanspeak and morel raw drivers when I was competing.  I haven't used passives in man years.. been active for a long time on ever install.  Save a lot of $ running raw drivers.  I learned a lot from a guy who wins in the pro classes and has one of the best years out there.. every part of the system matters to him and the source is a very big one.  A DSP in competition is just a given.  There is no way to get proper time alignment (unless you converted to a center seat like Chris Pate) for the front stage.  I had thought about the bit play but $500 per car where as the DX80 covers both cars for $300 plus the data storage.  I have the ability to use the radio or pop in my digital collection quickly.  I got on DIyma and found a good number of SQ guys do the same thing to get clean source media playback.  
 
Keep in mind my daily is a 2005 Dodge Neon with 112K miles and is an absolute hunk of sh!t.  It has expensive gear but its a crap car.  I don't mind a single wire having to plug into the DAP.  That said... it gets me around but I am by no means spending any time fabricating anything on this car lol (other than the DSP controller).  My other car the 2014 Stang I stopped driving so much because working down town was racking up miles far to quickly and being supercharged with a big stall converter isn't exactly fun in traffic either.  Driving my piece of crap Neon gave me no worries but of course I am an audiophile at heart so I shoved 2 bulk kits of deadner in the car and installed a 2way plus sub system.  It's a very basic install but stages very well and sounds great.  Morel MT23 tweeters I got new for cheap, SB Acoustics midbass those are only 120$ a set new for midbass/midrange and I traded some old amps to a shop owner for a brand new JL 12W6V3.  Uses an Audison Bit ten D and Audison Voce 5.1K with Bit In digital interface.  So the goal is to enjoy it but also not to stick a ton of $ into it.  I have been in car audio for so many years I have a ton of connections for reduced prices on gear. 
 
The Mustang has Illusion C3CX up front to be molded into the pillar, illusion C8 going in the kicks, 10" idmax sub ran by a Voce 5.1K with bit in and Audison Bit one (getting the HD version when I sell my Mosconi amps).  Ran off the factory deck for now with the goal being the new Sony for the source but in a Mustang hte mounting kit alone is $300.  So doing the math to avoid a pair of Sony GS9 head units and the mounting kit is $2,300 or... DX80 and a couple optical cables plus various adapters.  I can max out the capability of my DSP 24bit/96khz.  The only other DSP I know that goes higher is hte Mosconi Aerospace 24bit/192khz but no digital to my amps if I do that and I would prefer a single RJ45 over 3 pairs of RCA.  Audisons DPS's are nice but Helix and Mosconi have amazing adjustability. 
 
 
Basically I don't want to have to deal with a large tablet in a small compact car.. I'm not going to mold anything in on either car.  As it stands the Mustang may keep the stock radio fed into the Bit one.  both cars have mounts for my phone that will work for a DAP as well.  Quick and easy and cheaply getting the same results.  Now I am seeing why so many audio guys are doing this.  
 
Both of my DSP's have a stand alone DRC that has a volume knob and a way to switch between preset tunes and inputs.  I could literally run my car with no radio at all and mount the controller in the old radio location...hmm.. hell I may do that.. 
 
So my big questions is the DX80 the best DAP to go with?  at $300 and expandable up to 2tb (as those become available) it sure seems like a great idea and not like I can't do more later on.  Especially if that Neon takes a dump on me.  
 
 
The wicked new Sony..
 
http://sonyglobal.scene7.com/is/image/gwtprod/bb312297eaef30ade3b3b3c969589da4?fmt=pjpeg&wid=1014&hei=396&bgcolor=F1F5F9&bgc=F1F5F9
 
 
My Bit Ten D and Bit One controller.. I have seen it just stuck in place like this or fabbed in super easy.  Using the DX80 as my source and this controls the Master volume, Sub Volume, preset tunes, and inputs.  
 
http://s420343527.websitehome.co.uk/ebay/install/plugnplay/drc2.jpg

 

[ProtegeManiac]

 
Basically I don't want to have to deal with a large tablet in a small compact car.. I'm not going to mold anything in on either car.  As it stands the Mustang may keep the stock radio fed into the Bit one.  both cars have mounts for my phone that will work for a DAP as well.  Quick and easy and cheaply getting the same results.  Now I am seeing why so many audio guys are doing this.  
 
Both of my DSP's have a stand alone DRC that has a volume knob and a way to switch between preset tunes and inputs.  I could literally run my car with no radio at all and mount the controller in the old radio location...hmm.. hell I may do that.. 

 

The custom molding is for those that have a plain knob, like the RF and low end Alpine integration processors. However the BitOne doesn't have a DIN-size controller either although it isn't a plain knob. There will still be some fabrication involved unless you just drill a hole to run the cables behind it and then just stick it on whatever surface is big enough.
 

 
So my big questions is the DX80 the best DAP to go with?  at $300 and expandable up to 2tb (as those become available) it sure seems like a great idea and not like I can't do more later on.  Especially if that Neon takes a dump on me.  

 
Nothing else out there near its price with a touchscreen apart from the X5III, which in turn only has coaxial, no optical.
 

  Nice tweets!  I used a lot of Scanspeak and morel raw drivers when I was competing.  I haven't used passives in man years.. been active for a long time on ever install.  Save a lot of $ running raw drivers.  I learned a lot from a guy who wins in the pro classes and has one of the best years out there.. every part of the system matters to him and the source is a very big one.  A DSP in competition is just a given.  There is no way to get proper time alignment (unless you converted to a center seat like Chris Pate) for the front stage.  I had thought about the bit play but $500 per car where as the DX80 covers both cars for $300 plus the data storage.  I have the ability to use the radio or pop in my digital collection quickly.  I got on DIyma and found a good number of SQ guys do the same thing to get clean source media playback.  

 

There was a car here that won the lowest tier budget for several years that used an older Alpine CDA-7xxx receiver that had the high-power amp in it to drive cheap raw drivers plus a cheap rip off "Alpine V12" amp from Taiwan bridged for the subs (it's a 4ch driving two subs). Tweeters and midwoofers were properly aimed, doors dampened, installation was clean so no points were taken off anywhere. Time alignment, gain adjustments to each channel (instead of just plain L R BAL control), etc made for surprising imaging considering the $10 tweeters and midwoofers (each, not total, so they're not total trash).

 

[Copyright]

 

 

The custom molding is for those that have a plain knob, like the RF and low end Alpine integration processors. However the BitOne doesn't have a DIN-size controller either although it isn't a plain knob. There will still be some fabrication involved unless you just drill a hole to run the cables behind it and then just stick it on whatever surface is big enough.
 
 
Nothing else out there near its price with a touchscreen apart from the X5III, which in turn only has coaxial, no optical.
 

 

There was a car here that won the lowest tier budget for several years that used an older Alpine CDA-7xxx receiver that had the high-power amp in it to drive cheap raw drivers plus a cheap rip off "Alpine V12" amp from Taiwan bridged for the subs (it's a 4ch driving two subs). Tweeters and midwoofers were properly aimed, doors dampened, installation was clean so no points were taken off anywhere. Time alignment, gain adjustments to each channel (instead of just plain L R BAL control), etc made for surprising imaging considering the $10 tweeters and midwoofers (each, not total, so they're not total trash).

 
I try to keep telling people you don't need high end drivers to get high end sound.  Proper install and tuning is  all that is required.  My SB Acoustic midbass sound just as good as my old Morel Elate 6 mids did.  The Elate 6 mids are 5-6X more expensive.  If you look at hte Arc Audio Black series component set that midbass/midrange is the SB Acoustics speaker I got for 120$ to my door yet they sell their whole component set for $750 and only sell the tweeter for $200 so im guessing they are getting around $400-$450 for a speaker SB only made tiny changes to.. When tested it came out hte same lol.
 
I am all about budget installs.. depending on the class you get into it's hard to keep up with the guys using very high end gear plus they know what what they are doing.  Even the Audison DSP is far weaker than a Mosconi or Helix DSP.. and I mean not even a close comparison. 
 
The guy I know who uses the Ibasso DX80 uses it exactly how I plan to use it.  I am actually super excited to get into higher resolution files 24bit/96khz (I'm limited by DSP).  At some point there is no return on investment but for now this setup was pretty cheap for me.
 
 
If you have a link to the car you talkd about let me know!  I would love to check that out.  Do you know what Org and Class he was running?  That is one thing about competition they don't push the volume high at all just a normal easy listening level which doesn't take a lot of power.  I found to keep a good SQ system clean at louder volume overhead on power helps a lot.  
 
If you know anyone looking for some very high quality amplifiers let me know.. I have a pair of Mosconi AS amps.. a 200.4 and 300.2 for sale.  These are extremely good SQ amps and also extremely powerful as the 4 channel can bridge to 950wx2 and the 2 channel can do 1800wx1.  $3200 retail value I am at my bottom price of $1,100 shipped.  They have been powder coated white because the OEM finish on these aluminum amp cases like to get wierd over time.  This is a killer setup  for someone wanting poweful SQ amps.  
 
Thanks again for your help.. I am eager to see what the future holds for car audio and high resolution.. until then I will combine my love of "head-fi" and Car audio to get what I need  

 

[ProtegeManiac]

 
I try to keep telling people you don't need high end drivers to get high end sound. 

 

I have the same thing going on in this forum regarding GIGO - a lot of people go through the trouble of using a hgih end DAP in their cars but no DSP at all. Very few grasp the problem that they're nto in a Mclaren F1. Hell, my system sounds terrible without time alignment actually, but once the DSP is all set up properly, people don't believe I spent only $25 on the tweeters (I got the 165VR drivers used and real cheap). I don't even use the EQ actually - just crossover, reduced/proper gain set up (-6dB on the tweeters with the amp gain at minimum, BAL +2 bias to right channel), and time alignment.

 

Too many people think that EQ will take out the sibilance in a car when the problem is hearing the left and right tweeter out of sync with each other and the midwoofers, plus reflections off the windshield.

 

[Copyright]

 

 

I have the same thing going on in this forum regarding GIGO - a lot of people go through the trouble of using a hgih end DAP in their cars but no DSP at all. Very few grasp the problem that they're nto in a Mclaren F1. Hell, my system sounds terrible without time alignment actually, but once the DSP is all set up properly, people don't believe I spent only $25 on the tweeters (I got the 165VR drivers used and real cheap). I don't even use the EQ actually - just crossover, reduced/proper gain set up (-6dB on the tweeters with the amp gain at minimum, BAL +2 bias to right channel), and time alignment.

 

Too many people think that EQ will take out the sibilance in a car when the problem is hearing the left and right tweeter out of sync with each other and the midwoofers, plus reflections off the windshield.

 
Yup 100% true.  My system without TA sounds horrible as well.  I run a Dash Topper to help with reflections and it really works.  I know a good number of Sq guys using them.  So much involved in getting it right.. throwing in highend speakers isn't the answer to good sound.  Takes so much more to get it right.

 

[ProtegeManiac]

   
Yup 100% true.  My system without TA sounds horrible as well.  I run a Dash Topper to help with reflections and it really works.  I know a good number of Sq guys using them.  So much involved in getting it right.. throwing in highend speakers isn't the answer to good sound.  Takes so much more to get it right.

 
Even the driver's height is a factor, and that's why I can guess that if my car tuned for my head was brought to Europe or North America, it would score a heck of a lot lower. I had a friend who sat in it back when I had TangBand tweeters in the kick panels, and he was hearing the soundstage at the height of the instrument cluster. He's around 10cm taller than me.

 

[Copyright]

   
Even the driver's height is a factor, and that's why I can guess that if my car tuned for my head was brought to Europe or North America, it would score a heck of a lot lower. I had a friend who sat in it back when I had TangBand tweeters in the kick panels, and he was hearing the soundstage at the height of the instrument cluster. He's around 10cm taller than me.

 
YUP! lol.. I actually have my tunes setup for how tall someone is in the car when I was competing.  Competition is fun but not always the most enjoyable sound.

 

[ProtegeManiac]

  Competition is fun but not always the most enjoyable sound.

 
I don't compete but when I use EQ or set the gain structure the overall balance is still pretty much for competitions. In the same manner, when we're at the local hi-fi shows, my friends are all over the Grado, B&W, and Dynaudio, but I'm all over Sonus Faber and Aurum Cantus ribbons.

 

[ROCKNSS]

Is there an adapter for an iphone that provides optical output? I would love to stream Tidal over the same optical cable I had planned to use for the DAP... just swap out as needed. Having to worry about a cable is no big deal and I can use a split up front so if i break it off I just have to replace a short piece and not the whole long run back to the processor (like you mentioned. It's ashame the Audison Bit play HD is such a flop.

Look for a headphone/dac with optical output. Not sure what is out there, I have a Celsus Sound Companion One, unfortunately they quit making them.