[RRod]

   
Again, a DAC does not equal a cleaner signal. A DAC equals translating the signal from digital to analog. It's not about "better", or "more". It either does that job to the point that 100% of the information is flawlessly translated to analog, or it messes up and loses information. That's all there is to it. It can't work magic and make the original file "more betterer". Likewise for the amp, there should not be any change in sound quality. If there is, the amp is messing up at some point.
 
The reason there is so much talk about the sound of amps is that people enjoy looking at pretty boxes and glowing tubes, and because they like to endlessly argue that the way their fancy glowing box messes up the signal is in some way preferable. Audiophiles like to feel special too.

 
Not to mention that all but the most wretched DAC or amp will blow away even the best headphone for output quality. For instance, look at how well the HD800 handles A 500Hz square wave, then compare that to the signal you record by going straight from your DAC to a line-in. The HD800 looks silly even against my built-in soundcard!

 

[SunshineReggae]

Yeah, but distortion is additive, so even if your HD800 did bad and your DAC did better, the flaws of your DAC might still lead to audible problems.
 
Regardless though, you are right that headphones are the place to spend most of your money. And built in soundcards are great! I use my Fidelio X1 with a realtek 892 without any issues .

 

[RRod]

  Yeah, but distortion is additive, so even if your HD800 did bad and your DAC did better, the flaws of your DAC might still lead to audible problems.
 
Regardless though, you are right that headphones are the place to spend most of your money. And built in soundcards are great! I use my Fidelio X1 with a realtek 892 without any issues .

 
True, but seeing the output of something like the 892 (what I have too, btw!), it's not hard to see that it isn't contributing much to the 800's distortion issues. Yet people will tell you it sucks and that you need a $2000 DAC to make the 800s sing.

 

[nanaholic]

Onboard sound cards does have potential issues with electronic shielding though which is a very real issue when it comes to electronic circuits.  
 
Several years ago (2011ish) I build a PC using a MSI motherboard (not exactly no-frills brand) and the analog output from the sound card will pick up electronic noise within the PC, most obviously from the HDD during spin-up/seek where a noticeable whine/sqeek could be heard even during music playback, which prompted me to buy a stand alone DAC.  Not sure if recent ones are any better but I tend to think it's going to be hit-and-miss, so having a DAC which I can keep when I change PCs/parts is just one less thing to worry about.

 

[3ternalDr4gon]

If we are using a DAC that produces white noise with the cans/iems we want to use, do we purchase an amp or dac to try to get rid of it?

 

[thatBeatsguy]

  If we are using a DAC that produces white noise with the cans/iems we want to use, do we purchase an amp or dac to try to get rid of it?

You will have to buy an extrenal DAC to bypass the one you are currently using and therefore solve the white noise problem.

 

[3ternalDr4gon]

Awesome, thanks a lot

 

[3ternalDr4gon]

I just realized...I want to maintain the SQ of this DAP while creating a blacker background (I love the SQ but there is some white noise present with the iem's I use). If I use a DAC, I effectively lose all the SQ properties of the DAP by itself right?

 

[thatBeatsguy]

  I just realized...I want to maintain the SQ of this DAP while creating a blacker background (I love the SQ but there is some white noise present with the iem's I use). If I use a DAC, I effectively lose all the SQ properties of the DAP by itself right?

Well, yes, that should be pretty obvious -- you're bypassing the DAC chip of the DAP. Buy why are you looking for a solution like this, really? The differences are only very slight, and you seem to be asking about it like it's a life-or-death thing. 

 

[3ternalDr4gon]

The Shozy Alien sounds ridiculous at its price point ($160, some consider it better than the AK120 and Tera Player)