Please Explain Balanced Setups
Dec 17, 2014 at 2:58 AM Thread Starter Post #1 of 11

hotdogseller

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Can someone explain to me why it seems most end game setups are "balanced" setups? Does it actually provide any difference in sound quality? Is it just another way to throw money at the hobby or actually worth it for those wanting to upgrade sound quality?
 
Thanks!
 
Dec 17, 2014 at 8:50 AM Post #2 of 11
It's not a waste, but it's also not inherently better than single ended setups.

A balanced headphone connection uses four pins/connections while single ended uses three. In SE, the signals are left, right, and ground (which is common for both signals). For balanced, the signals are L+ and L- and R+ and R-. Basically, each channel has it's own ground.

For an amp designer, balanced is more difficult to design around (as you have to trace more circuit paths per signal), but it can help solve ground loop problems, and for a given rail voltage, they can deliver a lot more power. How does this matter to the end listener? Well as long as the specs are good, it doesn't. An SE output can sound just as good as a balanced one.

Really, you should only worry about a balanced connection if you like the sound of a balanced amplifier, as the balanced output is going to be the genuine result of the amp (while the SE output is a summed version of the signal), and you probably won't be getting the "true" max power from the amp without using the balanced out.
 
Dec 17, 2014 at 11:38 AM Post #3 of 11
Can someone explain to me why it seems most end game setups are "balanced" setups? Does it actually provide any difference in sound quality? Is it just another way to throw money at the hobby or actually worth it for those wanting to upgrade sound quality?


First you have to understand that there's "balanced" and then theres "balanced." What balanced is understood to mean by the rest of the audio word, particularly the professional side of the audio world, refers to line level interfaces, i.e. from a source component to a preamp or from a preamp to a power amp.

In this instance, what balance refers to is a balance of impedances, specifically between the non-inverting output and ground and the inverting output and ground. These impedances should be the same, hence "balanced." The purpose of this is to be able to reject what's called "common-mode noise." This is noise that is picked up by the cable and is picked up in equal proportions on the non-inverting and inverting lines.

On the input side, the cable drives what is called a "differential input." A differential input only amplifies the difference seen between the non-inverting and inverting lines and rejects anything that is common to both lines, like noise. If the impedances of the outputs and the cable are not balanced, this results in a conversion from common-mode to normal mode, meaning that the noise on one line is not of exactly the same amplitude as the noise on the other. Whatever the difference is, that will be amplified along with the signal.

This is what "balanced" is known to be by the rest of the audio world. And in small setups where you're not dealing with long runs of cable, doesn't really offer any meaningful benefit, other than some people think it's cool because that's what "the pros use." But the pros are dealing with hundreds of feet of cable often in noisy environments.

"Balanced" as used in the headphone world, is what the rest of the audio world calls "bridged." But those who first started making bridged headphone amplifiers didn't know any better and so they used the term "balanced" which has remained ever since and caused no end of confusion.

In a bridged situation, what's typically done is to essentially use two complete amplifiers for each channel. One amplifier is fed a non-inverted signal and the other is fed an inverted signal. When fed from the balanced output of a source component, this is pretty straightforward. But single-ended inputs have to be run through additional circuitry in order to produce an inverted signal to feed to the other amplifier.

The result of this is a greater voltage swing at the output. That's because the difference between +1 volt (the non-inverted signal) and -1 volt (the inverted signal) is 2 volts. The result is double the voltage swing which translates into four times the power into a given load.

Bridging was commonly used in car audio back before they started using DC to DC converters to increase the 12 volt car battery voltage to higher voltages so they could achieve more power. Bridging allowed you to get the most power from the car's 12 volt system.

However bridging has no real benefit in AC powered gear where your power supply voltages can be whatever you want them to be. People often talk about "four times the power" when referring to "balanced" amps, but this is meaningless. Four times the power of what? You can achieve whatever power you want from a single-ended amp. Others talk about "double the slew rate." But this too is meaningless as there are no amplifiers out there slew limiting.

Bridging may be useful in battery powered situations where you have limited voltage available and don't want to resort to using a DC to DC converter, but I see no benefit beyond that.

se
 
Dec 17, 2014 at 1:26 PM Post #4 of 11
Really, you should only worry about a balanced connection if you like the sound of a balanced amplifier, as the balanced output is going to be the genuine result of the amp (while the SE output is a summed version of the signal), and you probably won't be getting the "true" max power from the amp without using the balanced out.

You were doing well up until this point. The balanced output and the single ended output are both the pure output from the amp - the only "summing" going on in a single ended setup is the common ground (due to the use of a TRS connector). As long as the common ground resistance is very small compared to the rest of the system's resistance (and it nearly always is), there shouldn't be any serious effect on the signal at all. Also, power isn't really a concern with headphone amps, since nearly every headphone on the market can go ear-bleedingly loud on less than 1 watt. If well designed, both single-ended and balanced amps should sound absolutely identical, since the signal to the headphones is the same (and if it isn't, there's something wrong with one or both of the amps).
 
Dec 17, 2014 at 1:55 PM Post #5 of 11
You were doing well up until this point. The balanced output and the single ended output are both the pure output from the amp - the only "summing" going on in a single ended setup is the common ground (due to the use of a TRS connector). As long as the common ground resistance is very small compared to the rest of the system's resistance (and it nearly always is), there shouldn't be any serious effect on the signal at all. Also, power isn't really a concern with headphone amps, since nearly every headphone on the market can go ear-bleedingly loud on less than 1 watt. If well designed, both single-ended and balanced amps should sound absolutely identical, since the signal to the headphones is the same (and if it isn't, there's something wrong with one or both of the amps).
Yeah, for some reason I mixed up the circlotron topology (Schiit's topology for balanced outputs) with balanced in general.

And yeah, any well designed amp will sound great regardless of the tech inside, which is why I say that none of this really matters to the end user. All of the tradeoffs are evaluated by the engineer (not the user). You just pick an amp that you like, and if it only has balanced output, then you need a balanced headphone with a balanced cable. Otherwise, SE has you covered.
 
Dec 17, 2014 at 11:01 PM Post #7 of 11
Thanks to the contributors of this thread as I asked a similar question regarding the benefits of balanced cables in another thread :)

Can I ask though, what a "pre amp" is/does?

(In laymans terms)

Thanks :)
 
Dec 17, 2014 at 11:08 PM Post #8 of 11
Thanks to the contributors of this thread as I asked a similar question regarding the benefits of balanced cables in another thread :)

Can I ask though, what a "pre amp" is/does?

(In laymans terms)

Thanks :)


A preamp provides additional gain before feeding a power amp. Or to provide additional gain and RIAA equalization for phono cartridges. With today's high output digital sources, that additional gain isn't really needed, so preamps typically serve to provide input switching and volume control. Though it's still common to find preamps with large amounts of gain.

se
 
Jan 1, 2015 at 3:34 AM Post #9 of 11
A preamp provides additional gain before feeding a power amp. Or to provide additional gain and RIAA equalization for phono cartridges. With today's high output digital sources, that additional gain isn't really needed, so preamps typically serve to provide input switching and volume control. Though it's still common to find preamps with large amounts of gain.

se

 
Doesn't a preamp - in one case, a tube preamp - also serve to impart it's sonic signature to the power amp, in addition to just providing gain? Similarly, a DAC with an integrated preamp, which many use as the actual headphone amp, itself, also would impart some sort of sonic signature to the amp it's fed into. I mean, it's not just gain, right? I would think something would have to be awfully transparent - in a world where transparency really doesn't exist - to impart gain, alone.
 
Or I could be wrong. :)  
 
Happy New Year!!!
 
Jan 1, 2015 at 11:30 AM Post #10 of 11
Doesn't a preamp - in one case, a tube preamp - also serve to impart it's sonic signature to the power amp, in addition to just providing gain? Similarly, a DAC with an integrated preamp, which many use as the actual headphone amp, itself, also would impart some sort of sonic signature to the amp it's fed into. I mean, it's not just gain, right? I would think something would have to be awfully transparent - in a world where transparency really doesn't exist - to impart gain, alone.


My intent was to explain the purpose of a preamp. It is not the purpose of a preamp to impart any audible distortion to the signal.

Happy New Year!

se
 
Jan 2, 2015 at 11:51 AM Post #11 of 11
 I would think something would have to be awfully transparent - in a world where transparency really doesn't exist - to impart gain, alone.

Audible transparency absolutely does exist, and pretty much any decent solid-state gear is transparent. Any preamp that does anything audible to the signal aside from changing the gain is poorly designed or defective, in my opinion.
 

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