[fe2cruz]

Just got my first real headphones: Pioneer Monitor10.
Real stereo separation.
Bass doesn't linger; its just sharp and present.
Strings, vocals and Rhodes pianos sound great.
Has good pleather with no scuffs and plenty of life.
The foam shows wear; requires a sweet spot when placed on my head for no leaks.
The right can's mounting arm has a glued crack but its not visible, loose or troublesome.
I just got them in the mail today and they reek of mothballs so they are coated in baking soda
to try to remove the odors. Aside from the minor used equipment issues they sound fantastic.
I can hear all the overtones and harmonics in great recordings and all the warbling compression
and imperfections of mp3s and bad recordings. Its perfect for mixing and classical music. Fits
my needs much better than the Realistic, MDR-V6, HD201, and various in ear headphones I've
used before.
 
Since the Monitor 10 already sounds great to my ears, I'm wondering if I'd get anything
from a headphone amp? I understand amps can add their own color and power, but since I
already like the neutrality of the Pioneer Monitor 10 is an amp really needed? Straight out of a
laptop or mp3 player they are softer than most headphones, but still loud enough since all the
nuances and stereo separation come out clearly; low frequencies fall away only when the
volume is turned very low. Out of a true head unit or audio interface they reach proper and
accurate loud and low volumes without any lost frequencies. On my Sherwood S-7000 amplifier
I feel like there is some proper power driving the Monitor 10. I can reach some ear-bleeding
levels when using this old '70s amp's headphone output. Would a proper headphone amp be
any different or better?  They are too bulky to be portable so I'd never use them without my
audio interface or Sherwood amplifier.
 
Should I just buy an open back headphone that would actually benefit from an amp instead?
I haven't found a reasonably priced open air vintage headphones, however I'm still curious
about the open back experience and other hi-fi options. I've thought about visiting a music
store or some other hi-fi dealer to audition some high end cans.
I live in southern california and found this list from this thread:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/219099/so-cal-grado-dealers
If anyone else has suggestions please forward the info.
The Audio Technica ATH-AD700 and a headphone tube amp have caught my attention.
Refurbished cans don't seem too pricey. From what I've read its a neutral can with a nice big
soundstage. Would I like these as much as my Monitor 10? Are they durable and reliable?
Its the cost of the tube amp that seems scary. Would a cheaper DIY or portable be more
practical for a beginner like me?
 
Currently I'm hunting for more vintage headphones to compare and collect: Pioneer SE-50 &
other similar old headphones + a headphone mixer for shared multiple headphone listening.
I love cheap old stuff that is designed well and lasts a long time. Beyerdynamics seem out
of reach, and old AKGs seem too hard to find. If an open back and amp is really superior
to a Monitor 10 for mixing and classical music then I might hold off on buying these cheaper
cans and a mixer.
 
 

 

[MDR30]

Impedance is about 24 ohms and they are in my experience not difficult to drive bur an amp almost always improves control and dynamics. The Monitor 10 is no exception. Driver's in my avatar.

 

[Deep Funk]

In a good set up the Monitor 10 thrives. As efficient as it is for a vintage gem it does like a bit of current...

 

[Acix]

Quote:

Impedance is about 24 ohms and they are in my experience not difficult to drive bur an amp almost always improves control and dynamics. The Monitor 10 is no exception. Driver's in my avatar.

I think only the Pioneer monitor ll is the one with the 23 ohm, the original 10 sounds more to me...http://www.head-fi.org/t/335475/just-arrived-pioneer-monitor-10-with-pictures/600

 

[fe2cruz]

this place is the best,
 thanks everyone for replying
 
this wiki says 4-16 ohm
More dynamics would be great. With the Sherwood its much louder but not anymore dynamic.
I could never find any real specs on this receiver so I'm not sure if its sending any real power/current
through the headphones output jack. Looks like I may be on the road for a proper headphone amp
for the Monitor 10 before I buy anything else.

 

[Deep Funk]

Be careful, the Monitor 10 can go loud but your ears will suffer first. Just be gentle with the volume knob and be sure the headphone out is clean...

 

[MDR30]

Quote:

I think only the Pioneer monitor ll is the one with the 23 ohm, the original 10 sounds more to me...http://www.head-fi.org/t/335475/just-arrived-pioneer-monitor-10-with-pictures/600

 


Quote:

this place is the best,
 thanks everyone for replying
 
this wiki says 4-16 ohm
More dynamics would be great. With the Sherwood its much louder but not anymore dynamic.
I could never find any real specs on this receiver so I'm not sure if its sending any real power/current
through the headphones output jack. Looks like I may be on the road for a proper headphone amp
for the Monitor 10 before I buy anything else.

 
Well, as you can read in thread Acix refer to I measured my Monitor 10 and the resistance is 22-23 ohms, so there about is the impedance as well. Sensitivity and impedance are two different things. The "4-16 ohms" from Wiki is information from the box, common for Japanese headphones of this period, referring to amplifier suitability.
 
Enjoy yor Monitor 10, it's a fine piece of work.
 
 

 

[fe2cruz]

So I decided to experiment with my Behringer T1953 micpre with upgraded NOS 12AX7 tubes
And what a mind-blowing experience it was! I still need help deciding which route to go for future
collecting though.
 
Quote:

Be careful, the Monitor 10 can go loud but your ears will suffer first. Just be gentle with the volume knob and be sure the headphone out is clean...

Don't worry When I had things cranked I was just using the voltmeter. When the cans are on my ears I'm keep things low around 12 o'clock tops.

Quote:

Sensitivity and impedance are two different things.  

Yeah I'm still really new to all this and was never really good at the math & numbers of things.
The ohms are confusing because I'm still not sure how the lower or higher number effects the power
that you need to drive the headphones. With admission of ignorance, here's the results of my
experiments with some '70s pop music FLAC file listening out of a laptop:
 
Sherwood S-2700 headphone output jack = .002 - .854 Volts
micpre T1953 direct outputs (no headphone jack) = .003 - 1.759 Volts
 
The Sherwood had better volume than my audio interface. It output much more bass but was still clear.
It started to distort around 3 O'clock though. Aside from the volume and tiny bit of warmth it wasn't that
much different from the non-powered audio interface headphone jack. Researching old receivers a
bit more, I'm finding the padded headphone out of this Sherwood is probably a poor design. It distorts
too much at higher volumes. The power to the headphones becomes distorted output rather than
useable drive for clarity. There are good receivers with proper powerted headphone outputs out
there, but my Sherwood though exceptional with speakers isn't so good in the headphone area.
 
The Behringer Tubes were a whole new world for me. The volume output was lower than the Sherwood,
similar to the audio interface. However even with the warm dials on from the tubes turned off there was
much more dynamic clarity. With the warm dials at 12 O'clock I could hear tiny volume/tremolo in
background Rhodes pianos way behind in the mix that I never noticed before. String and vocals were
brilliant without being tinny. The bass was present but not as overbearing and on top of everything like
it was on the Sherwood. With the warmth dials cracked all the way I didn't notice any distortion but
the brightness was enough to be overpowering even at low volumes. This could really wear me out
after long listening. I liked it best adjusting the dials around 12 O'clock depending on the music.
It was amazing to still hear nuances in the music even at low volumes round 10 O'clock. I currently
use it for only recording; wheeling it around the house on a little furniture dolly. I'm thinking of putting
a turntable on it and making a little rolling listening station out of it. I could make little modular stacks:
one for listing mixer & turntable, another exchangeable stack with the compressors cables and
microphones that are currently on it.
 
So now that I've heard the Monitor 10 driven and tubed, would I still get more from a proper headphone amp?
Since I'm already getting the clarity and bigger soundstage is a dedicated headphone amp now redundant?
How much more voltage would a headphone amp make compared to the micpre? Is the micpre safe to drive
ATH-AD700 or other needy headphones? Is the Monitor 10 driven and tubed good enough or better than
the ATH-AD700 amped? Would it be better to start shopping for a mixer and other cheaper vintage cans
now instead?

 

[RexAeterna]

pioneer uses aluminum voice coils(aluminum allows more power input but is far more resistive compared to copper) and are big 57mm drivers so they can benefit from more juice. they sound great out of most things you plug them into though and i use to use with my sony walk man on the go. on the manual it mentions not to use speaker outputs but i found that a load of crap cause they claim 100db@1mw but seriously that's not happening with them. they seem to like current. i used them off of speaker outputs myself and they respond very well to speaker outputs.

the AD700 will probably not be any type of improvement or most headphones won't be over the monitor 10. monitor 10 has a pretty dead flat response. i would get another pair of different headphones for different reasons like gaming or something but you can't really find much to replace them. i wouldn't drive them with tubes either unless you want to color their sound. if you like the monitor 10's i would just stick with them unless you want something more portable. they are balanced as well is reason behind there great stereo separation cause they use 4-core wiring with separate ground on both left and right channel to kill cross-talk. they defiantly monitor headphones as they imply(most headphones are marketed ''monitor'' headphones but aren't in real world testing).

 

[fe2cruz]

 
Quote:

but i found that a load of crap cause they claim 100db@1mw but seriously that's not happening with them. they seem to like current. i used them off of speaker outputs myself and they respond very well to speaker outputs.

Thanks! that's good to know I won't be damaging my Monitor10 with the micpre.
 
Quote:

i wouldn't drive them with tubes either unless you want to color their sound. if you like the monitor 10's i would just stick with them

Yes I'm trying to get over the TUBE fetish, but its hard. I'll only use the tube coloring for casual listening. For reference, sampling and mixing
I'll just use my audio interface to avoid any amplifier coloring. As you mentioned the Monitor 10 sounds great and flat out of anything anyway.
Just a couple more nights of wiping it over with vinegar and I think I'll be able to get the mothball stink/smell off of it. A funny initiation into 
what is turning out to be a really great set of headphones!
 
Quote:

i would get another pair of different headphones for different reasons like gaming or something but you can't really find much to replace them. 

I do want a shared headphone party mixer setup. Getting lots more old $10 cool looking cans would be much more fun than investing too much
money on an amp or a new pair of headphones that wouldn't be any better than what I already have. I guess for my mixing and flat needs I 
don't really need to experiment with open backs since the Monitor10 offers it all anyway. I've read about the semi-open back versions: SE-2
through 6 but still think that the Monitor 10 fits my needs best.
 
So still on topic for what to buy next, is there anything to look for in a powered multiple Headphone mixer? What specs hurt the sound most?
It seems like the main issues are from faulty or noisy power adapters more than anything else.
is this cheapo enough? pyle-pro
Other brands I've seen are BEHRINGER, SAMSON, ART and ROLLS