[Monsterzero]

Well luckily for us all, @Monsterzero pointed out no amp or dac in the world was going to help here

In 1978 the dedicated headphone amp had not yet been invented. The only way to drive headphones back then was from an amp or receiver headphone jack.
I too got suckered into purchasing those Pioneers based upon old reviews of them. Luckily I got them cheap enough.

 

[HRC20]

Yes agree, no dedicated headphones amp back then.

I really would like to love them, because they look good and I had them at a decent price but ...

Maybe I’ll be more lucky with vintage Fostex T50 v0

 

[Monsterzero]

Could it be we both listened to a defective item ?

My pair was NOS in box. No. Not defective.
Im a reviewer as well. One thing ive learned is that this hobby is almost entirely subjective. One man's trash is another man's treasure.
Ive owned several vintage headphones,as well as vintage receivers. Most of the old headphones are flat out atrocious sounding. The exceptions ive discovered again are the sextetts,the HD250s and to a lesser extent the HD540,though I found those to be too bass light for my tastes.
Another crappy sounding headphone that many like are the AKG K340s,and those werent cheap back in the day.

Also owned a pair of vintage Fostex too. Dont bother. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.

Ive been spreading the news about the Sextetts around this and other forums for quite some time. Theyre simply epic for rock/metal/blues/folk. Their fault lies in an extreme lack of sub bass. Other than that they flat out rock. The HD250s pickup the slack in the sub bass dept. I actually prefer them to the Audeze LCD-2 in bass rumble and slam.

 

[HRC20]

The Sextetts were on my list too, but from what I’ve read I thought the Monitor 10 were better. I might give it a try, but they actually still produce them. Thanks for your advices.

At first I was in between the Pionners and new Grado Sr60 with G cushions. I could still re sell my pioneer and Buy the Grado. My dream would be to try some stax lambda.

 

[Monsterzero]

The Sextetts were on my list too, but from what I’ve read I thought the Monitor 10 were better. I might give it a try, but they actually still produce them. Thanks for your advices.

At first I was in between the Pionners and new Grado Sr60 with G cushions. I could still re sell my pioneer and Buy the Grado. My dream would be to try some stax lambda.

Grados and Sextetts have a similar forward-mids sound. The Grados however have all sorts of ugly spikes in the upper mids,not to mention theyre quite uncomfortable to wear.
If you still want to pursue the Grados you will need a modern dedicated headphone amp. There will be an impedance mismatch out of your amp,giving the Grados a bad case of bass bloat.

Since were on the topic of vintage gear....A little shameless self promotion here.

 

[HRC20]

Thank you, I’ll watch your videos. Nothing wrong with self promotion

but then I would have the same impedance problem with the new version of the Sextett? And their is also a few different versions of the vintage ones. Z reviews the older vs the new one on youtube

 

[Monsterzero]

Thank you, I’ll watch your videos. Nothing wrong with self promotion

but then I would have the same impedance problem with the new version of the Sextett? And their is also a few different versions of the vintage ones. Z reviews the older vs the new one on youtube

AFAIK there is no such thing as a "new" Sextett. AKG has made several headphones named K240,but there is only one Sextett.
Check out this post to clear up the K240 mystery.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/headphones-for-metal-music-ultimate-solution.715478/post-13299270

 

[HipHopScribe]

I'm not surprised, most vintage headphones I've heard have been underwhelming. Vintage headphones are kinda like vintage cars, they have value as collectors items and they're a niche interest that some people are really into, but for the vast majority of people a modern car is simply a better choice to own than a vintage car because technology has advanced

 

[HRC20]

Ok thanks both for your opinions. It looks my expectations were too high.

I didn’t have a chance to watch the videos but read the thread talking about how to differentiate the Sextett.

to build on the original Fostex, did you try it with other pads? Because I read it is better than the new rp. The Sansui ss100 that is an oem version is also considered one of the best vintage headphones. But the one I could buy would be the Nad oem since easier to get in Europe.

 

[Monsterzero]

to build on the original Fostex, did you try it with other pads?

I did not. Pads can make a difference within reason. If a headphone isnt anywhere close to the sound I'm after then I simply move on.
Im a huge fan and supporter of ZMF headphones. Zach Merhbach of ZMF started out in this hobby as a modder of Fostex drivers. I owned for a short time one of his ZMF Blackwood,which uses a modded Fostex driver,and even with the magic that Zach creates,the sound simply wasnt for me.
ZMF now builds their own drivers and headphones and as I said im a huge fan,and have owned several of his headphones. If Zach cant make the driver sound good,then there obviously is a huge gap for the sound im after.
That being said,you might very well enjoy some of the old Fostex drivers.

 

[GREQ]

Ok thanks both for your opinions. It looks my expectations were too high.

I didn’t have a chance to watch the videos but read the thread talking about how to differentiate the Sextett.

to build on the original Fostex, did you try it with other pads? Because I read it is better than the new rp. The Sansui ss100 that is an oem version is also considered one of the best vintage headphones. But the one I could buy would be the Nad oem since easier to get in Europe.

A properly modified NAD RP18 will kick an AKG K240 Sextett's ass, but to modify it properly is no small feat... in fact you have to take the drivers out, and put them into a different headphone frame, and buy new pads, damping materials etc etc... and best to have a headphone measuring jig to make sure you're getting consistent modding results while you're at it.
My modified RP18 is basically a 'poor-mans-LCD2', has better bass depth and texture than an LCD2, but smaller soundstage and less detail.
In the end, I like it, but for most people I think it would be a wasted effort.

SO, really it's better to stick to modern headphones or the few vintage classics that don't require modifying or extra work to sound good.
I'd say, try out the early sextett - you can tell it's the early one, because the suspension headband has holes in it and the cable is does not appear smooth, but as 4 small cables in parallel.
Or if you want to try a planar like the NAD RP18, consider trying the Yamaha HP-1.

To be clear, the Sansui SS100 is not an OEM of the T50, it's a unique headphone all on it's own that has similar drivers and form factor, but not the same as any other.
It is more something between a Fostex T50(nad rp18) and T30, but not exactly like either.
It is also only considered "the best" because of a few highly verbose reviews from overly-excited collectors. In of itself, it requires significant modification to begin to compete with modern headphones, unlike the stock HP-1 which is already somewhat comparable, without modification.
Also it's good to remember that your 'best' is not going to be the same as someone else's 'best', so it's always good to wait until you hear it first.

 

[HRC20]

Very informative comments. I’m not against some mods like changing pads or add some blue tack but I won’t change the drivers etc. So yes I guess I should start with something that doesn’t require that much modification. So without mods or just with pads the rp18 isn’t much better than than my Pioneer? How far from a Sextett?

I find the Sextett very attractive, more than the Yamaha. The Yamaha seems to be pretty rare in Europe. It is a matter of budget too, since I don’t want to pay much more than 120£. I missed a stax lambda sr with amp that needed some love for less than 20£ thought I think I would have been happy with that.

Monsterzero, are you talking about the original t50 or the new versions

 

[Monsterzero]

@GREQ knows his stuff. He has been involved in the modding community for as long as Ive been around. I have made some minor mods to a few headphones,namely the HE500 and HE6,but those mods were simple and easy to reverse. I leave the extreme modding to the experts like GREQ and Zach Merhbach,amongst others.

The Sextett has a very unique,aggressive mids presentation. Guitars are very forward,which make guitar and vocals stand out,lending itself to the genres I listed above.
All of the Fostex drivers ive heard(unmodded) were nothing in sound at all like the Sextett. Very warm and bass heavy.

 

[HRC20]

You both definitely know what you talking about and I thank you for your advices.

I can’t see what changing the pads on my Pioneer would affect the sound a lot but maybe I could try? What pads would fit ? I could maybe try that before investing some money in another headphone, and wait a bit before selling them.
Any other pre 80s (if not pre 90s) headphones that doesn’t require a modern amp worth trying ? Micro Seiki ms2, made by stax?

 

[GREQ]

Any other pre 80s (if not pre 90s) headphones that doesn’t require a modern amp worth trying ? Micro Seiki ms2, made by stax?

The Micro Seikis are fairly infamous for being time-bombs.
Many of the driver diaphragms have simply decomposed with age, far beyond repair.

Pre-80's I would consider shipping a Pioneer SE-11 over from Japan.
But on-ear might not be your thing.
They do however have very decent resolution and good bass/treble extension. Overall, kinda smooth.. like an on-ear HD-600... maybe.. but not quite.
If frequency response measurement graphs mean anything to you, this is what an SE-11 kinda looks like - https://itsgreq.gitbook.io/headphone-measurements/untitled-10
Compare it with the HD-650 - https://itsgreq.gitbook.io/headphone-measurements/sennheiser-hd-650
They're also not crazy expensive to ship over, because they're fairly common over there.
But you'd need to use a proxy service for bidding on the item on Yahoo-Japan. I'm not so familiar those services though.
Even with proxy service costs and shipping, total cost would probably be well under budget.