[Ghoostknight]

I do think that false perception of sound changes is utterly central to the topic of crystals changing sound because it is a very obvious alternative explanation to guys hearing things that science doesn't explain.

yep in this case its worth a thought...

i mean, the brain is a "whole construct" with many parameters, they definitely go hand in hand to some degree
but things get interesting when these changes in "whatever" parameter come to a consistent conclusion i think

Best theory i still have in my mind here... i mean WHAT IF people hear a actual difference in EMI/RFI filtering products because EMI gets actually radiated less trough the air in your room? Again, stupid theory but good example

You can't shut down one side of a very rational discussion because it diminishes the logic of the other explanation, that is the very essence of proper scientific method and understanding.

You mean this in a way that i have to aknowledge that negative ions could just change my mood and therefor sound perception?

Yes i get this and i dont wanna deny any discussion here, as long there is atleast a reproducable change in the outcome

 

[Ghoostknight]

Bias is remarkably consistent.

not able to A/B "bias" vs "non-bias" is the thing here

 

[BS5711]

No I mean I think it is much more likely that you are imagining changes in sound rather than your crystals and bags of minerals actually doing anything at all.

Just because a faulty perception of sound is consistent doesn't mean it isn't still faulty. If for example I have a new cable for an IEM that is bright shiny white and has silver wire and all the marketing and reviews say it will sound bright, it will probably sound bright despite that it doesn't technically sound any difference at all. I expect a bright sound so I will hear a bright sound and I will continue hear bright until I actually believe that the bright isn't real. Been there done that.

If you expect your crystals to provide clarity in the treble and tight impactful bass for example that is what you will hear and that is what you will always hear today, tomorrow, in a week, faulty isn't necessarily variable.

I think you dismiss the psychology far to flippantly because it isn't as interesting in messing around with all the other technical stuff.

 

[BS5711]

not able to A/B "bias" vs "non-bias" is the thing here

Yes you can ..... just have someone help with a proper blind test.

 

[Ghoostknight]

Yes you can ..... just have someone help with a proper blind test.

but this also comes with other flaws

Just because a faulty perception of sound is consistent doesn't mean it isn't still faulty.

Just because you got a "fitting" explanation doesnt make it true either

If for example I have a new cable for an IEM that is bright shiny white and has silver wire and all the marketing and reviews say it will sound bright, it will probably sound bright despite that it doesn't technically sound any difference at all. I expect a bright sound so I will hear a bright sound and I will continue hear bright until I actually believe that the bright isn't real. Been there done that.

imo objectivist could be bias just the same in hearing "no difference"... stupid counter argument but kinda true too if i go by objective logic
i specially talk about when normally listening and not doing DBT

i mean we can agree to disagree here, i know you wanna help but either help is too late for me or i dont know

 

[Ghoostknight]

Just to say it out loud... i think audiophiles dont imagine (tho, i also dont say there is non involved..) things and there MUST be a reason for this... of course you got here and there your crazy audiophile but i dont think all can be wrong (or nuts)...

 

[bigshot]

Yes you can ..... just have someone help with a proper blind test.

It’s good enough for the medicines that save your life. It should be good enough for some stupid wires or a digital player.

 

[Ghoostknight]

It’s good enough for the medicines that save your life. It should be good enough for some stupid wires or a digital player

but the thing is it doesnt seem to be enough... i mean its a way people were able to reliably make science work... i get this... but i dont think its "perfect"

there are still things rather unclear in perception... just look at high FPS monitors that people prefer or audio stuff

 

[Somafunk]

but the thing is it doesnt seem to be enough... i mean its a way people were able to reliably make science work... i get this... but i dont think its "perfect"

there are still things rather unclear in perception...

If it’s not enough for you then I’m sure there is a phd proposal in your near future, try MIT - I hear they’re pretty decent for science”y” stuff, let us know how you get on with that.

 

[Ghoostknight]

If it’s not enough for you then I’m sure there is a phd proposal in your near future, try MIT - I hear they’re pretty decent for science”y” stuff, let us know how you get on with that.

i guess they will figure it out at some point without me

 

[bigshot]

Like the rest of us.

 

[BS5711]

You dismiss known human auditory weaknesses as easily as I dismiss the crystal nonsense.

The difference is the human auditory weaknesses are known, understood, can be demonstrated very easily but you are not interested because it stands in the way of the other garbage you would rather be messing with.

Please don't come back with a segmented rebuttal, I don't care, your mindset is very obvious and there is no changing it, you need to learn for yourself but you are currently not interested, maybe one day you will change your mind.

 

[Ghoostknight]

I think i stated my opinion clearly why and how i think about it, so yea no point in arguing the same stuff...

 

[bigshot]

He doesn't understand how it works, so he assumes everyone- science included- doesn't know.

 

[Ghoostknight]

great video about negative ions :