Picking up a table for DJing.. sl-1200? Am I making an ignorant choice?

[Luminette]

Greetings,

I'm picking up a table for vinyl and one for CD/digital.

As for the vinyl one - I am leaning towards the technics sp-1200


I'm here because I really don't get the impression that most DJs are concerned with high fidelity audio.


But, I also don't want to miss out on any crucial features needed for the DJing application as opposed to the straight listening application that is the norm for us in the audiophile side of tables.


So, the sl-1200.. how much will a cartridge and arm matter? Where does the value stop scaling with the dollar?

I see things like recabling the arm.. varying mods.. I doubt these are going to be something worth the price for me - but I am eager to be informed in any way on table mods - how much effect, how much cost.


What I am looking for is a good idea of where the sweet spot is. The Sl-1200 is already pretty pricey for me - but I need to have a good table - and be able to make good needledrops.. and be able to record my mixes.. with the best SQ possible - that's half of the reason for why I'm doing vinyl in my DJing to begin with.



I'll also use this for my own personal vinyl listening, too =)



After I have a table picked... I'll be back to try asking about mixer and CD turntable stuff.



Thanks for taking the time to read / help

 

[tubes]

It's the natural choice, a very durable table, it was made for home use but adopted by DJ's. There are many upgrades including arms which is a debate in itself. Go to KABUSA, lots of info on the 1200.

Phill

 

[MoodySteve]

Some thoughts of mine, after spinning vinyl & CD for 5 years or so:

-Don't go crazy on the cartridge/needle, because you'll have to replace the needle many times. I always used the Ortofon Concorde stylii and liked them.
-The SL-1200 is the industry standard turntable and I've never used another one that felt more 'right.'
-Bear in mind that basically all electornic music (and ESPECIALLY dance music) is mixed completely on computers (i.e. in the digital domain), by relatively inexperienced producers, and is rarely mastered competently if at all. In fact, a lot of dance music is normalized, which is a fidelity no-no. There's also the RIAA curve to consider. Point is, the nominal SQ benefits of vinyl don't really apply to DJ/electronica vinyl. That said, working with vinyl feels nicer than working on CD turntables.
-When you have a turntable, you start collecting vinyl. Vinyl is expensive, and this collection hits your wallet HARD. There's a reason we call vinyl 'black crack.'

 

[Orcin]

Back in the day, the SL-1200 was considered the standard for DJ tables. It's a great choice IMO.

 

[jpelg]

The thing is that the setups for DJ-ing or home hi-fi use will differ considerably.

For DJ-ing, the SL-1200 is a great table out of the box. For hi-fi, you face more critical choices from cartridges, to modifications of various cost & complexity.

I don't think the same setup will be ideal for both simultaneously.

 

[memepool]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MoodySteve /img/forum/go_quote.gif -Bear in mind that basically all electornic music (and ESPECIALLY dance music) is mixed completely on computers (i.e. in the digital domain), by relatively inexperienced producers, and is rarely mastered competently if at all. In fact, a lot of dance music is normalized, which is a fidelity no-no. There's also the RIAA curve to consider. Point is, the nominal SQ benefits of vinyl don't really apply to DJ/electronica vinyl.

So you've never heard Dillinja's valve sound system then?

or Carl Craig's recent DGG project?

Electronic music has as much chance of being well made or badly made as any other and to say otherwise means you don't know enough of it.

The predominant sound palette of "Dance" music or "electronica" or whatever you call it is analogue synths and drum machines. Roland TB-303, TR 808, TR 909, Juno 106, SH-101, Jupiter 8, MiniMoog, EMS... all analogue.

If you are serious about DJing, forget CD mixers, MP3s or stuff like that, get yourself some SL-1200s or Vestax ( if you want to get into turntablism ) and learn your craft properly from basics. You can go to any club in the world and play on Technics, the only time you'll see CD mixers or laptops is at parties in very hot countries where the vinyl will melt.

If you want to upgrade you Technics to audiophile levels then look at Origin Live . KABUSA have some 'interesting' ideas about the Technics tonearm but in sound quality terms it's a waste of money, and even in terms of build quality the Technics arm is not to the same standard as the rest of the deck.

The amount of times you'll turn up at a party or a club and find that the tonearms rattle isn't funny. The Rega arms are actually much stronger.

Get some Stanton 681 carts with a basic conical stylus for DJ'ing and a 3 E's eliptical for listening or transcribing.

 

[tubes]

To dismiss KABUSA mods for the 1200 as "a waste of money" is a little bold. Have you tried them all to verify they are just snake oil as you imply. I know you are in love with Rega arms from your input on other threads. The stock Rega arm is grey and nasty sounding, I know they can be made to sound good but at what cost, I would spend a little more for a good used arm over a Rega but that's my opinion.

Phill

 

[memepool]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tubes /img/forum/go_quote.gif To dismiss KABUSA mods for the 1200 as "a waste of money" is a little bold. Have you tried them all to verify they are just snake oil as you imply.

Well you need to re-read those other threads because I have never said that the KABUSA mods are "snake oil" as they will definitely improve the performance of the the stock Technics arm.
The problem I have with the KABUAS arm mods is that

a) it's a waste of money to rewire the Technics SL1200MkII arm because there are so many much better arms to rewire both vintage and modern.

b) That the damping trough is pretty limited in application and only really geared towards maximising the sound quality of concord type carts fitted with audiophile high compliance tips like the OM30/40.


Quote:

Originally Posted by tubes /img/forum/go_quote.gif I know you are in love with Rega arms from your input on other threads. The stock Rega arm is grey and nasty sounding, I know they can be made to sound good but at what cost, I would spend a little more for a good used arm over a Rega but that's my opinion.

Well I wouldn't say I was in love with Rega arms although I have several, I would absolutely agree that they can sound "grey" on some decks with some carts and that of course there are way way better arms out there.

But we are talking about a 250USD / 124UKP tonearm and for that price they are in a class of their own, simply the best arm you can get and the benchmark by which everything in this pricerange is judged, end of story.

Whats more most modern carts you can buy today are designed to work well with this type of arm so limiting yourself to high compliance '70s remnants is pretty obtuse.

 

[Sherwood]

Jackson --

Craigslist is your friend, here. SL-1200s pop up around Denver all the time. Are you looking at a full proper DJ setup with two turntables and a mixer?

The problem with a dual-purpose rig is that a few parts on a TT, like the cartridge, are real wear items. You'll get a few thousand hours out of a cart for hi-fi-use, but the abuse you dish out cueing, scratching etc. wears them down quicker than that.

Technics have a cartridge system that allows you to swap cartridges very easily, so it might behoove you to have a "needledrop" cartridge, and an "everything else" cartridge.

I'll give you a ring and we'll go over the finer points. Welcome.

 

[tubes]

I haven't listened to the 1200 with a Rega arm but it's quite possible a rewired Technics arm will sound better than a stock Rega at a reduced cost and the Rega lacks adjustability until you throw more money at it. It boils down to what you are willing spend.

 

[Sherwood]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tubes /img/forum/go_quote.gif I haven't listened to the 1200 with a Rega arm but it's quite possible a rewired Technics arm will sound better than a stock Rega at a reduced cost and the Rega lacks adjustability until you throw more money at it. It boils down to what you are willing spend.

This does not need to become a Rega vs. Technics thread. We have tons of those. I think it suffices to say that the OP is not interested in replacing the arm on a technics table at this time, nor is he particularly interested in rewiring it. I might have inferred this unnecessarily, but his post leads me to believe that he's looking for value on the dollar, and a good starter setup.

 

[Luminette]

yeah, I was scouting out craigslist for some last night and there are indeed a ton

it's hard to find any info on differences in the different mkX versions - doesn't seem as if there are any, but that wouldn't make sense. I see a lot of what I am guessing to be older models - non mk2s which are the current?

 

[Sherwood]

As is to be expected, Wikipedia's overview is an excellent resource for Technics model information.

So far as I know, the Sl 1200 Mk. 6 is the most recent model, but it's REALLY recent, as in since 2007, so I doubt you'll see many of those. The basic body style hasn't changed in 30 years, but successive models have improved damping, wiring, and skate settings.

 

[deltaydeltax]

I have a Tech 1200. It kicks ass! I'm using Stanton Trackmasters on it now. I also have a Shure something or other. It's by far my most favorite turntable ever! I've owned three of them.

 

[memepool]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tubes /img/forum/go_quote.gif I haven't listened to the 1200 with a Rega arm but it's quite possible a rewired Technics arm will sound better than a stock Rega at a reduced cost and the Rega lacks adjustability until you throw more money at it. It boils down to what you are willing spend.

Well I have listened to both and there is no comparison. I have also listened to an SL1200MKII and a MKV which has the Titanium plated rewired arm and the difference in price isn't really worth it.

All the mods Technics have made to the SL1200 since 1978 (ie the MK2) almost without exception are mainly in response to innovations by Vestax who actually set out to design a DJ deck from the ground up as opposed to modifying a mid-price '70s domestic deck.

KAB also offer some of these modifications for the older iterations of Technics like removing the indentation on the pitch control. But these kind of mods are of most use for turntablists, ie people who are using the deck as a musical instrument more than a replay device.

So unless you are really into Hip Hop and scratching and stuff, in which case you'd probably be better off with a Vestax, as they are upgraded a lot more frequently so don't hold their value as well as the Technics, then the SL1200MKII is the best one to go for.

The most important mods are to the arm whether you decide on the retro KAB high compliance or contemporary Rega route, followed by the motor which is a KAB mod.

Ssportclay probably has the done the most modding out of any Technics SL1200 owner on here so maybe PM him. I've been doing the arm mods to my Vestax decks recently but havn't had time to finish testing as yet.