Phone + Chord Mojo vs DAP Alone

[fuhransahis]

Hello, just joined so sorry if I'm bringing up a question that has already been answered (haven't found it yet so far).
 
Basically, I have a Galaxy S6 Edge whose sound quality I never realized truly sucked until I bought great headphones. First got the V-Moda M100 but then sprung for the Audeze Sine, which I'm sticking with.
 
So at 20 ohms they should be sufficiently powered by my phone, but not so at all, even at max volume the sound is not loud enough, and at the next lowest step half of the sound is inaudible when on the go.
 
I bought the Fiio Q1 and it works great, but after reading about the Mojo I am looking to get that, as I'd rather spend a decent amount of money now but be done with buy equipment for a while, and not want to upgrade again within a year.
 
To sum it up, I have a budget of about $600-650 max to either buy the Mojo or by an Android-based DAP (I need Tidal). I will not buy a DAP and then a cheap amp for the DAP as I don't want to carry all that around, buying an amp on it's own is clunky enough as it is.
 
Any recommendations on phone + mojo or stand-alone Android-based DAP? SQ-focused, of course. [if a DAP is recommended please be so kind as to list which one(s) 

]
 
Any help is greatly appreciated. Thanks!

 

[cel4145]

So at 20 ohms they should be sufficiently powered by my phone, but not so at all, even at max volume the sound is not loud enough, and at the next lowest step half of the sound is inaudible when on the go.

Not true. Impedance does not guarantee that a headphone is easy to drive. It's also dependent on sensitivity, and the the Sine are not nearly as efficient as most 20 ohm IEMs. Innerfidelity measured them as needing 0.38 mw to reach 90db with impedance of 24 ohms. Not super difficult to drive, but if you listen very loud, most phones are not going to drive them the way you want.

So you just need more power. That's why the Q1 works well. Now the S6 Edge measures very well when connected to an external amp. If you just want more power for future headphone purchases, the Cayin C5 would be capable of driving a large majority of headphones out there.

 

[fuhransahis]

 
 

 

[fuhransahis]

Not true. Impedance does not guarantee that a headphone is easy to drive. It's also dependent on sensitivity, and the the Sine are not nearly as efficient as most 20 ohm IEMs. Innerfidelity measured them as needing 0.38 mw to reach 90db with impedance of 24 ohms. Not super difficult to drive, but if you listen very loud, most phones are not going to drive them the way you want.

So you just need more power. That's why the Q1 works well. Now the S6 Edge measures very well when connected to an external amp. If you just want more power for future headphone purchases, the Cayin C5 would be capable of driving a large majority of headphones out there.

Thanks for the info! Great to know.
 
So I'm looking to make any changes soon since I'm still within my 30-day return period for the Q1. What I'm looking for is both power and the best sound quality I can get for the headphones (I don't need an insane volume level), Q1 goes more than loud enough, for instance. I just want to make sure I'm getting the best use I can from these headphones.
 
So would you recommend exchanging the Q1 for the C5? And would the Mojo not be far better than either option? Or would there be no real noticeable difference at the equal volume levels?
 
Being able to power much harder to drive headphones in the future is only a very slight plus.

 

[EagleWings]

I do not have any experience trying full-size headphones with the Mojo, so I am not in a position to tell you how big of an improvement you would experience. But one thing you need to consider when you are planning on pairing Mojo with a smartphone is the RF/EMI noise. It is not just a problem with Mojo but every DAC.
 
Mojo has earned such commendation because, not only is it powerful, but it also has a very good DAC section. So chances are, with an improved DAC section and a powerful output section, Mojo might sound like a significant improvement. And from what I have seen, Mojo does a great job driving the Sine.
 
That said, even Fiio X7 and Onkyo DP-X1 have a better DAC section than your smartphone and might have enough power to drive the Sine. You can ask in the X7 and DP-X1 threads to confirm.

 

[buke9]

The Mojo will drive just about anything out there and sounds great also. I really liked the function of the X-7 but the sq is lacking IMHO the Onkyo is quite a bit better. Neither come close to the QP1R but you need streaming and it is over budget anyway. Most all streaming Dap's are going to stretch you budget.

 

[fuhransahis]

I do not have any experience trying full-size headphones with the Mojo, so I am not in a position to tell you how big of an improvement you would experience. But one thing you need to consider when you are planning on pairing Mojo with a smartphone is the RF/EMI noise. It is not just a problem with Mojo but every DAC.

Mojo has earned such commendation because, not only is it powerful, but it also has a very good DAC section. So chances are, with an improved DAC section and a powerful output section, Mojo might sound like a significant improvement. And from what I have seen, Mojo does a great job driving the Sine.

That said, even Fiio X7 and Onkyo DP-X1 have a better DAC section than your smartphone and might have enough power to drive the Sine. You can ask in the X7 and DP-X1 threads to confirm.

Thanks! So do you think the DAC in the Mojo is likely better than that found in the X7, and would ultimately have a better SQ?

 

[fuhransahis]

The Mojo will drive just about anything out there and sounds great also. I really liked the function of the X-7 but the sq is lacking IMHO the Onkyo is quite a bit better. Neither come close to the QP1R but you need streaming and it is over budget anyway. Most all streaming Dap's are going to stretch you budget.

Thanks! So by how much do you think I'd have to stretch my budget to get a DAP that would have better sound than the Mojo? Sounds like the phone + Mojo option is better so far no?

 

[buke9]

Thanks! So by how much do you think I'd have to stretch my budget to get a DAP that would have better sound than the Mojo? Sounds like the phone + Mojo option is better so far no?

Phone and mojo is your best bet IMHO.

 

[EagleWings]

Thanks! So do you think the DAC in the Mojo is likely better than that found in the X7, and would ultimately have a better SQ?

 
I have not heard the X7 so I am not in a position to comment on that. But when I was in the market to buy a ~$700 player, I asked a couple of people and most of them recommended the Mojo. 
 
Like I mentioned, the problem with pairing the mojo with a smartphone is the RF/EMI noise issue (you hear crackling sounds on top of the music). If you can use your phone in Airplane mode or if you could get an iPod touch or could get a used smartphone to strictly use for music, you should be good.

 

[fuhransahis]

Phone and mojo is your best bet IMHO.

Sounds like we have a winner, thanks!

 

[fuhransahis]

I have not heard the X7 so I am not in a position to comment on that. But when I was in the market to buy a ~$700 player, I asked a couple of people and most of them recommended the Mojo. 

Like I mentioned, the problem with pairing the mojo with a smartphone is the RF/EMI noise issue (you hear crackling sounds on top of the music). If you can use your phone in Airplane mode or if you could get an iPod touch or could get a used smartphone to strictly use for music, you should be good.

Strange that the noise problem is there even though it's heavily marketed toward use with smartphones. The way I'll use it is mostly during my commute where it will be in my bag and my phone will be in my hands anyways so it may not be an issue (I hope). In any case I'll try it out and return if it becomes a problem. Thanks for the help!

 

[cirodts]

In your best onkyo a dp x1 or samsung s3 + mojo, with which solution will have a more suitable sound to rock sound detailed warm sound and especially non-fatiguing.

 

[Ancipital]

Sounds like we have a winner, thanks!

 
Make sure you use a player that does its own USB sound driver-fu, like UAPP or the Onkyo player, or your audio will probably be badly up/downsampled by Android's audio libraries (you'll see the sample rate on the Mojo stay constant, rather than match that of the material). On a DAC/amp of that quality, the quality difference is really shocking, if you don't.
 
Otherwise, carry on. The Mojo is a little box of joy, I've used it to drive everything from K181DJs and IEMs to a Stax rig in line-out mode, and it has always delivered more than I expected. You'll love it

 

[fuhransahis]

I have not heard the X7 so I am not in a position to comment on that. But when I was in the market to buy a ~$700 player, I asked a couple of people and most of them recommended the Mojo. 

Like I mentioned, the problem with pairing the mojo with a smartphone is the RF/EMI noise issue (you hear crackling sounds on top of the music). If you can use your phone in Airplane mode or if you could get an iPod touch or could get a used smartphone to strictly use for music, you should be good.

Thanks to everyone for their help! In the end EagleWings was right about RF interference with my phone. The Mojo sounds fantastic but this unfortunate issue does break the deal. Now looking into either the Oppo HA-2 or the Sony PHA-1A, or whatever the next comparable portable dac may be (under $600).