Phonak Audeo?

[tstarn06]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tams /img/forum/go_quote.gif This post may irrelevant as I have little knowledge of how IEMs work, although I have tried. My PFEs sound great, but there seems to be something missing from the left monitor. I understand that what I am hearing could just be how headphones in general work and that I think of this as a problem only because I'm not used to the new sound. The vocals in particular seem to be a lot stronger on the right. Can anyone explain this for me? I know that the left and right monitors are designed to produce different sounds in a recording and that many recordings are created for such playback. However is what I'm hearing normal? Could it be my ears, or am I just not getting a good enough seal? I very much doubt the filters could be a cause as I only just got the PFEs and I also doubt the IEMs are damaged. If its any use, some of the music where this seems pronounced is Violet Hill and Strawberry by Coldplay and Unknown Caller by U2, both at 320 kbps mp3. Sorry about the mass of questions.

Take the filters out and listen, just to be sure. Also, are they black PFEs? Some have reported problems with the left channel on recent black models, mostly a DOA or quick death of complete sound, but yours could be less problematic (but still not right). Do those tracks sound that way on any other headphones you have? If not, it's definitely the PFEs.

Might want to consider getting a replacement pair. I have the white ones and never had a problem, as they manufacturing defects with left channel (and some chipping of the driver housing) all seem to be prevalent with the black PFEs.

 

[dfkt]

Quote:

Originally Posted by gadgetman /img/forum/go_quote.gif Here's one way to improve Phonak's bass response (and fit, and overall sound stage, and details, and clarity...), without adding any additional components to your chain: http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2008-...akCustoms2.jpg http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2008-...nakCustoms.jpg

That looks very interesting - however, I assume the phones are quite a bit farther away from your ear canal than with stock tips? How is the comfort, considering the PFE's "ergonomic" design? I assume they don't fit flush with your ears anymore - can you please post pics of you wearing those customs, if possible?

 

[HeadphoneAddict]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tstarn06 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Haven't had time, but I will do some sort of comparison and let you know via PM. Just in casual listening, I'd say the IE8s deliver superior soundstage and more powerful bass impact, but no surprise there. However, under optimum conditions (amp, black filters, etc.), the PFEs still do something the IE8s don't (for me) when it comes to mid/treble detail. My short answer is I use the IE8s much more, since no amp is required, and really enjoy them. But when I want to listen to acoustic music, female vocals (jazz, folk, etc.) and I am at home, I still reach for the PFEs. Oh, the IE8s are only at about 200 hours, too. Not the magic 250 hour mark.

Well, 250 hours is NOT the magic mark, it's more like 350 hours.

 

[tstarn06]

Wow, I'll check back in April. Guess you hit that number, and found some more improvement relative to the mids and highs?

 

[gadgetman]

Quote:

Originally Posted by dfkt /img/forum/go_quote.gif That looks very interesting - however, I assume the phones are quite a bit farther away from your ear canal than with stock tips? How is the comfort, considering the PFE's "ergonomic" design? I assume they don't fit flush with your ears anymore - can you please post pics of you wearing those customs, if possible?

Yes, the phones are further away from the ear canal than stock tips. I cannot discern any negative audio effect from this yet, even with my full-on skeptic mode set to ON, trying to discern any placebo effects (I know, it's impossible. But I still try.) The bass is so much more impactful with these, yet they still retain the speed. Deep tight bass. I love it.

As for its 'comfort', the phonak is pretty much taken out of the equation because your ears basically only interfaces with the mold.. As this is my first custom mold, to me it still feels less comfortable than using phonak on its own. Putting them on and off also takes quite a bit longer, so it's not recommended for usage in that situation (in places where you'll meet many people you know, around your wife, etc).

For this design, they're not flush with my ears: imagine your ears sealed with a flattish slab as its surface, and the phonaks hang onto them (with some bits of protective molding on top of it. Tomorrow I'm going back to the lab, and see if they can make just the tips, like UM56. I'd reckon you can get 70-80% of a full mold's performance without the annoyances. We'll see about that.

I will try to take pictures of them on ears tomorrow.

 

[mobbaddict]

I just did a comparison between the Phonaks and my new DT880 (paired with a Headsix), i can't believe the Phonaks are still on par with the Beyer on many points. I think they even have a slightly better clarity and treble extension. On the other side the Beyer has a little bit more bass. Otherwise they sound pretty similar.

 

[pi3guy]

for my ears, the pfe's are supremely comfortable for the first 1-2 hours of listening
then, where the plastic touches my ear starts to get sore and I need to take them out and rub my ears a little, but I think that is to be expected.

do the pfe's change in sound at all? is there a burn-in process? I think I heard some ba need burn-in.

 

[tstarn06]

No burn in for BAs, other than getting used to the sound in your head.

 

[gadgetman]

Quote:

Originally Posted by dfkt /img/forum/go_quote.gif can you please post pics of you wearing those customs, if possible?

Alright, I've finally received my 'version two' mould. The first one had fit issues because the technician whom made my impression wasn't an experienced one, so the lab couldn't make a proper mould from it. These fit much better and in turn they completely seals my ears boosting the bass, clarity, etc.

Here's a pic of the phonak in-ear. Gotta really zoom-in on them to be able to see the detail of the mould because they're almost invisible when you wear em in public:

I think I still need to go back and have em place the 'holes' more forward and tweak the shape so the phonak goes deeper in the ears.

Other than the 'full seal' moulds, I'm also ordering a couple of the 'canal' versions. Those are shaped like UM56. They should be done on Sunday and will post pictures of them when I receive the things.

 

[dfkt]

Very very nice looking... think I'll pester my audiologist for something like that.

 

[radagast85]

wow they look cool. how's isolation with those?

 

[robm321]

Where are you getting these done? Did you just go into an audiologist office and tell them what you want done? Are you the same one that said it was only $12?

I actually wear the PFEs just in the ear - not shoved deep. My ears seal better that way. When pushed deep the isolation goes away. So, I agree that everything improves if they are farther out assuming you can get a good seal that way (most seem to not be able to from what has been posted).

 

[gadgetman]

Quote:

Originally Posted by dfkt /img/forum/go_quote.gif Very very nice looking... think I'll pester my audiologist for something like that.

BTW, after having my second ear impression session.. a few points to watch out for:
- When making the impression, take note of how your ears feel in normal condition. When they fill your ears with the mold material, you should feel the pressure\warmth especially around your ear canals to make sure the impressions made are accurate. It should feel similar on both sides.
- You may want to ask the audiologist to show you samples of the finished product then you can discuss the (hole) placement of the IEM in regards to the mold and probably the mold's thickness.
- These molds take awhile to put on and take off.. it definitely gets old quick if you have to take them on and off when you're in 'busy' areas (anywhere near your wife\gf for example

). Consider making a second set of canal-only molds (like Westone UM56) for these uses..

Good luck!

Quote:

Originally Posted by radagast85 /img/forum/go_quote.gif wow they look cool. how's isolation with those?

I'm nearly deaf with these on

I believe these are the same custom plugs they use for swimming earplugs actually, they just drill holes on them for IEMs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by robm321 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Where are you getting these done? Did you just go into an audiologist office and tell them what you want done? Are you the same one that said it was only $12? I actually wear the PFEs just in the ear - not shoved deep. My ears seal better that way. When pushed deep the isolation goes away. So, I agree that everything improves if they are farther out assuming you can get a good seal that way (most seem to not be able to from what has been posted).

It's an optic chain in Indonesia

They've a hearing aid division who can do these sort of things for about $12.5 (acrylic and silicone) and $25 (biopores model, breathable materials I believe).

I don't think I can do what you've just decribed. From my experience, using these custom mold sounds like when I have a very good seal with the grey olives... just a much tighter seal. I hear much less ambient noises (nearly silent in fact), and the all around sound quality from the PFE's just improves (better high and low extensions, snappier, more impacts on the bass, more delicate details can be discerned especially on highs, etc.).

From how you described your fitting, it sounds like there's a bottleneck-like shape near the entrance to your ear canals. It's bigger inside than the opening. So you have to pull the olive 'out' to get a seal in the bottleneck area, because if you push it past that 'bottlenect', then the olives would be 'loose' again? You might want to try the comply or use a bigger olive shoved deeper, if the current seal is easy to dislodge.

 

[dfkt]

Thanks for the hints, Gadgetman - highly appreciated.

I have UE11, and they're a perfect fit. UE took the guy who made the impressions in their recommended list for Austrian audiologists. He also made IEMs for the Austrian broadcasting corporation (ACS or Sensaphonic-style, not sure). I trust him to do a good job, but will keep your hints in mind.

 

[gadgetman]

@dfkt: lol, doesn't seem like you need the tips I gave you then

Please keep us updated on your custom molds!