[KPzypher]

So buy a PortaPro and be happy forever.

hmm.. typical.

Wants to make a point on the internet, but when someone questions or presents a contrasting view, reverts to childish behavior.

Didn't find the PortaPro comment befitting, but do go on.

Please expound in your next response what 'right' is. I'd like to broaden my horizon and learn the universal truth.

 

[rev6]

At this moment, I have been listening all day with the X3s I don't find any problems with that track, no sibilance or peakiness. Very smooth highs.
But as a reference, a track I do ocassionally find to be peaky (note: not sibilant) and fatiquing with the X3s:

I ordered them on prime day for £245 but currently out of stock.

 

[KPzypher]

I ordered them on prime day for £245 but currently out of stock.

That sucks! They're still available for $249 on Amazon in the US.

 

[Mink]

I ordered them on prime day for £245 but currently out of stock.

Nice! Let's hope you're going to like them as much as I do. (and not hold it against me if it turns out you hate them as much as xRaptorxPunisher does )

 

[Slater]

Nice! Let's hope you're going to like them as much as I do. (and not hold it against me if it turns out you hate them as much as xRaptorxPunisher does )

Haters gonna hate. There were plenty of haters on the X2, so it’s funny how to see people doing a 180 and gushing over them

Same thing happened with the KZ ZS5

 

[CTR640]

You know, this one is the exact opposite of the Amiron Home and the Amiron Wireless.
I'm not trying to be offtopic or derailing the thread but as I said it earlier, if the X2 has been the most favorite, the X3 will be hated and trashed for sure. That doesn't apply to the Amirons at all despites the same name, they totally sounds different from each other and what I gathered from the reviews and experiences here, the X2 and X3 sounds different too and do we really have to hate on either one of them because...one sounds different? How about pick one that suits your mood and quit bitching

 

[MisterMudd]

How about pick one that suits your mood and quit bitching

I agree, but this happens every time, every forum. Boring.

 

[xRaptorxPunisher]

What is right?

There's no such thing as right or wrong in this hobby. You can only judge by the level of your own perceived enjoyment.

Every sound you'll ever hear will be processed thru your ears, which are not only different from others, but will change overtime as you age.

Why do you think the Harman curve is an average and a targeted frequency, and not an absolute value?

There's no absolute truth or a 'right way' to do things in this hobby.

It's whatever floats your boat.

I'm not one to buy into the whole, all ears are different. In a healthy range ears will hear the same thing but the difference is once experience which leads to perception. If one owns Grados then listens to say a DT770, they can perceive that has a smooth sound, it isn't it's smoother because what they're used to is a more extreme treble.

If you play an instrument, Piano, Guitar etc. Say a Fender from the last few years, full bodied, resonant, and a certain headphone doesn't capture that body then it's not within the range of having a correct timbre.

Neutral in a headphone doesn't have to be perfect, but it should be able to not interfer with the instrument or singers voice to the point it sounds unnatural. Warmer headphones tend to be more accurate in my experience, they're able to give you the resonance of wooden instruments, bass decays. Many planers like an Audeze phones for example lose out on that, which leads to them having a more plastic timbre rather than having the natural warmth due to the linear bass, mid bass is flatterned out and headphones need that mid bass to create the things I just mentioned.

If you have a reference, take a certain % for things like mic colouration, source gear you gotta have a personal target and the closer the more it gets a nod so to speak. Can this headphone reproduce the voice as intended, close to the original recording? Are all reverb, natural decay audible and does it add or take away, if so by how much? Some people use spectrum analysers, I have in the past, you do need a trained ear however too.

One thing a lot of people do is only having one or two phones and no reference. I have at least 10 phones around me here at home, some I bring from other properties, work etc. Not to swing my pole around but the reason I bring this up is I see it as a cleanse, I don't like getting used to a certain sound, you miss imperfections, one could argue if you get used to it what's wrong? I do it because it reminds me that what I hear is what I hear, if my HE-6 for example sound smoother, I've probably temporarily adjusted or I need to play a reference track in case the mastering is smoothed over.


before I bloody rambled your question was what is right?

My answer is the headphone that can consistency reproduce timbre, voice, extension, reverb, body as close as possible, more consistently.

When a headphone sounds way off on something you know doesn't sound that way then you have to make the argument it's wrong.

 

[Mink]

I own 10 pairs of headphones. I have the HD650s as a reference and I own the X2HRs, the predecessors of the X3s.
I mostly listen to classical music. I have been to live concerts so my ears have this as a reference point as well. Both my 'muddy' NightHawks and my 'bright' X3s sound true to life in their own way.
There isn't a constant. So many factors are at play how my ears perceive sound. In practice, as a music consumer (I am not a musician or producer), but as someone who likes to enjoy music, neutrality and naturalness is a choice, something I need to decide for myself. If it weren't a choice I wouldn't be able to enjoy music, because I would be frantically searching for the neutrality grail.
I agree, the HD650s do vocals better and the X2Hrs are more fun, with a particular kind of music that is. But I vastly prefer the X3s for classical music. Both HD650s and X2HRs don't come close in overal pleasure.

 

[Beagle]

hmm.. typical.

Wants to make a point on the internet, but when someone questions or presents a contrasting view, reverts to childish behavior.

Didn't find the PortaPro comment befitting, but do go on.

Please expound in your next response what 'right' is. I'd like to broaden my horizon and learn the universal truth.

Hmmmmm..

You will note than on my original post, 'right' and 'wrong' were presented quoted as such. So your query has already been basically answered. If it hasn't, as far as tonal balance and correct portrayal of timbre goes, there is a right, assuming you want the recording correctly played back. If not, that's fine too. Those in that camp would possibly be content with a PortaPro and an MP3 player and never look back. But there are a good deal of folk here who are still chasing after the perfect headphone, the one free of distortions and FR aberrations, in order to hear the sound as intended by the recordists. I like some of both.

 

[Hifiearspeakers]

Too many people confuse personal preference with “right and wrong”. There are definitely headphones that are wrong and have a wonky frequency response. A headphone that has a treble peak that is 20 db’s above the bass and mids is simply WRONG. That doesn’t mean that there won’t be those who like that FR or even prefer that FR. But that doesn’t make it any less wrong.

And there are those that want honest opinions about gear and sometimes those opinions are going to be negative. That’s a good thing. No one wants to just read cheerleading and praise...unless it’s honest and warranted. This is a discussion group, not an infomercial.

 

[KPzypher]

Hmmmmm..

You will note than on my original post, 'right' and 'wrong' were presented quoted as such. So your query has already been basically answered. If it hasn't, as far as tonal balance and correct portrayal of timbre goes, there is a right, assuming you want the recording correctly played back. If not, that's fine too. Those in that camp would possibly be content with a PortaPro and an MP3 player and never look back. But there are a good deal of folk here who are still chasing after the perfect headphone, the one free of distortions and FR aberrations, in order to hear the sound as intended by the recordists. I like some of both.

Too many people confuse personal preference with “right and wrong”. There are definitely headphones that are wrong and have a wonky frequency response. A headphone that has a treble peak that is 20 db’s above the bass and mids is simply WRONG. That doesn’t mean that there won’t be those who like that FR or even prefer that FR. But that doesn’t make it any less wrong.

And there are those that want honest opinions about gear and sometimes those opinions are going to be negative. That’s a good thing. No one wants to just read cheerleading and praise...unless it’s honest and warranted. This is a discussion group, not an infomercial.

Flat response just means equal output at all frequencies. Truly flat response for headphones does not exist.

You're confusing 'flat' with 'ideal' or 'generally accepted' target.

There are many targets for a flat response for HPs, and the popular Harman target being one of them. But the Harman target is not 'flat' nor does it claim to be. It's just a general listener preference. So there's no 'right' or 'wrong' here. If you're using the Harman curve as your accepted reference point, than you're making your argument based on 'your ideal' sound, not a flat response. And that goes back to my original point. That we all perceive sound differently. Generally accepted target is not a reference point for everyone and there are no flat curve that can be applied equally to everyone. Our ears are shaped differently with different resonances, posture, etc, not counting our brain processing and interpreting sound. What you may hear as elevated may be even for me. The 20 db example is a bit extreme, and I know you're just trying to make a point, but peaks and dips are perceived differently. You'll need a few db's here and there to account for the difference.

Reference is 'relative.'

Certain aspects of HPs being true for most people does not mean it's true for everyone.

The only truth is that people on this forum fight and argue over something that is subjective.

 

[pasi123567]

But there are a good deal of folk here who are still chasing after the perfect headphone, the one free of distortions and FR aberrations, in order to hear the sound as intended by the recordists

I feel like, and thats just guessing, but I feel like a lot of "audiophiles" which I would not necessary call me, search for a headphone with the fastest speed, the most detail and cleanest sound. I would not call that "true to how the author intended it" but more "hear every detail in the recording".
I for example search for a sound that has a similar sound to how it would be in a big room or open space. With long decays and reveberations, all kind of unperfect things, that make the audio more like it would be in the real world. I love those kind of things as they somehow put life into the music, while if you go for the clinical approach there is no more emotion left.
I found this song today and I think it is a perfect example of a song that sounds 10 times better in a room with speakers or if someone would play it outsider than on any headphone in existence, though headphones with long sound decays like my K702 sound amazing on it while I could not even enjoy the song at all on a HD600 or DT880 as they have a very clean sound.
I did not have many high end headphones but I feel like the cheaper a headphone is, the more decay and less control it has, making the sound more natural, but thats just my theory. I am like the anti audiophile, maybe, I don't know.

 

[Hifiearspeakers]

Flat response just means equal output at all frequencies. Truly flat response for headphones does not exist.

You're confusing 'flat' with 'ideal' or 'generally accepted' target.

There are many targets for a flat response for HPs, and the popular Harman target being one of them. But the Harman target is not 'flat' nor does it claim to be. It's just a general listener preference. So there's no 'right' or 'wrong' here. If you're using the Harman curve as your accepted reference point, than you're making your argument based on 'your ideal' sound, not a flat response. And that goes back to my original point. That we all perceive sound differently. Generally accepted target is not a reference point for everyone and there are no flat curve that can be applied equally to everyone. Our ears are shaped differently with different resonances, posture, etc, not counting our brain processing and interpreting sound. What you may hear as elevated may be even for me. The 20 db example is a bit extreme, and I know you're just trying to make a point, but peaks and dips are perceived differently. You'll need a few db's here and there to account for the difference.

Reference is 'relative.'

Certain aspects of HPs being true for most people does not mean it's true for everyone.

The only truth is that people on this forum fight and argue over something that is subjective.

What are you even talking about? When did I mention flat response even one time? I gave an example of a FR with a massive treble imbalance. You’re confusing the ability to read with the ability to comprehend.

There are absolutely headphones that are more neutral than others. They make a piano sound like a piano and a kick drum sound like a kick drum. There may not be an absolute standard for neutral. But in a general sense, it’s a very real thing. And headphones with jacked up frequency responses is also a very real thing.

A frequency response is an objective measurement. Preference for or against that FR is subjective.

 

[KPzypher]

What are you even talking about? When did I mention flat response even one time? I gave an example of a FR with a massive treble imbalance. You’re confusing the ability to read with the ability to comprehend.

There are absolutely headphones that are more neutral than others. They make a piano sound like a piano and a kick drum sound like a kick drum. There may not be an absolute standard for neutral. But in a general sense, it’s a very real thing. And headphones with jacked up frequency responses is also a very real thing.

A frequency response is an objective measurement. Preference for or against that FR is subjective.

"There are definitely headphones that are wrong and have a wonky frequency response...... But that doesn’t make it any less wrong."

Your words, not mine. They're wrong based on what??? Based on what standard??? Neutral based on what???

If it's a general statement than state it as so rather than saying there's a definite 'right or wrong' FR like you've stated in your previous post.

Stop thinking your standard applies to everyone else.