[shigzeo]

so, i have the pfe, have had the atrio v1, the turbine, er4s, e500 on long loan, um2, fx500, denon c700, kenwood c711, ne7m, zagg z-buds at ck10 (love) and many others.

they are all good and all have weaknesses as monster researchers say. what i don't like about the phonak is the fit is very painful sometimes. bass however is up to the listener i suppose but i would prefer more. the cable seems similar to the fx500 which may not be the most robust but is very good for microphonics.

i am still convinced that if the atrio v1 was housed in a different casing, its sound would be unstoppable. the plastic intrudes a bit on the sound making for some boomy echoes that i did not like. but after all my listening to many phones, i am quite sure that dynamics add something that armatures cannot: tangible presence to the instruments. in armatures, you can hear the small details but in the dynamics, i can hear and feel the sound. incredible -- for the people like me who like the tanglible side of listening

 

[koven]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jant71 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Some things I've notice more lately on the forums... Some members need to respect others opinions/experiences more. Different sources, music, tips, ears, and tastes abound. You can't tell someone else what they hear and what they should like/dislike. Respect their opinion and then let it go. Some keep on going and harping on it. It makes this a much less fun place to come to. Some members are hypocritical in that they can get all over what he/she doesn't like but nobody can dare say anything negative about what they like or are a fan of. I guess they take it as some sort of personal attack. It's headphones, earphones, and amps for cryin' out loud! Reminds of the kid at the playground who if he can't win takes his ball and goes home. BTW, RE0 FTW! Thank you AudeoWorld for the timely refund!

How do you like the RE0 compared to the PFE... I thought about getting that but went with the PK1's instead..

 

[jant71]

That's a great choice on the PK1's Koven. It seems to fit more of what your looking for. PFE's, RE0's and more neutral sounding phones are probably not warm enough without amping or bass boosting.

I find the RE0 more transparent overall, bass is more headphone like, vocals have more emotion, and the treble is staged better( too forward in the mix with the Phonaks). For unamped grab them and go, the Phonaks become bright and fatiguing if you push them while the RE0 are smooth and then sparkle a bit when pushed. Sometimes you want to pump the tunes a bit more! The cable of the Phonak did not inspire long term confidence and tangled too much also.

They are excellent earphones, the Phonaks, and a good first effort from Phonak. Just not enough of an improvement for me and I sent them back. The RE0 has 30 days to return but I will be keeping them and selling my SF 5.

 

[Lucille]

sorry the Phonaks didn't work out for you Koven, good luck in finding some that do suit your needs, and get to boppin!

 

[cn11]

Quote:

Originally Posted by shigzeo /img/forum/go_quote.gif so, i have the pfe, have had the atrio v1, the turbine, er4s, e500 on long loan, um2, fx500, denon c700, kenwood c711, ne7m, zagg z-buds at ck10 (love) and many others. they are all good and all have weaknesses as monster researchers say. what i don't like about the phonak is the fit is very painful sometimes. bass however is up to the listener i suppose but i would prefer more. the cable seems similar to the fx500 which may not be the most robust but is very good for microphonics. i am still convinced that if the atrio v1 was housed in a different casing, its sound would be unstoppable. the plastic intrudes a bit on the sound making for some boomy echoes that i did not like. but after all my listening to many phones, i am quite sure that dynamics add something that armatures cannot: tangible presence to the instruments. in armatures, you can hear the small details but in the dynamics, i can hear and feel the sound. incredible -- for the people like me who like the tanglible side of listening

I agree with you that a different housing could possibly help. I've also been wondering lately about the thin nozzle that is used on so many armature based earphones, including the PFE's, that perhaps it lends to a bit of that uninvolving sound. The Atrios have that too, and I think it might tend to choke in the mids and soundstage. The one armature based earphone I've really liked is the TF10, and it has the wider nozzle. So does the IE8. I would love to see the Atrios updated with a better housing material, and the wider nozzle.

I bet that wider nozzle helps with a more natural open sound.

But, alas, back to the PFE's........

 

[Pianist]

Quote:

Originally Posted by koven /img/forum/go_quote.gif How do you like the RE0 compared to the PFE... I thought about getting that but went with the PK1's instead..

Great choice if you don't need isolation, while comfort, durability and great price/performance ratio are your main priorities. For the price, PK1 is easily the best sounding portable headphone you can buy. It's sound quality is miles ahead of PK3 in just about every way, especially when amped.

 

[tyrion]

Keep the thread on topic and cut out the bickering over nonsense.

 

[cn11]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ethan961 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I can't believe how silly this is getting. The atrios are in no way better overall than the phonaks. The phonaks are in no way overall better than the atrios. The phonaks had better SQ but had a bit of trouble with complex music (which I believe is because i did not use an amp) The atrios have less detail and NEED the 'treble booster' EQ on my 1st gen iTouch (however they sound much better with no EQ at all on my sister's 2nd gen touch than no EQ on my 1st gen) The atrios have better soundstage and are more involving, and have the best cable I have ever seen, but they lack a lot of the detail and control. They are massive, somewhat picky on positioning, and too dark overall. The phonaks didn't have the best build quality, and were not right for me under the conditions I had set at the time (no amp, no source upgrades, no other purchases such as full sized cans) Overall, I wish I kept the phonaks, but I hope to find a middle ground with either the IE8 or the turbines. PS. I might keep the atrios, simply because they sound good enough to me to justify the $100 I paid for them, and because I am happy with them - I don't need anything more. I also strongly believe that this hobby is 90% based on personal preferences and priorities, and 10% based on actual physical differences.

I think that either the IE8's or the Turbines (because of the nature of dynamic driver IEM's) would be a much better choice if your music is demanding and complex. I have both, and by comparison the PFE's would lose control wayyyyyyy too early to be useful with music like that (if you're using them unamped).

 

[ethan961]

yeah, I think that was my main complaint with them, they lost control on the lower end and even the mids with complex music, even some not that complex music like the new metallica stuff. The atrios handle this stuff much better.
I found that the phonaks shone with stuff like linkin park and nine inch nails, stuff with cleaner notes and not complex at all - complete opposite of the atrios which I listen to my various types of metal with happily.

I was using the phonaks unamped at the time, but I have an E5 on the way now for use with the atrios to possibly help the high end.

As for IE8 vs Turbines, I could get the turbines soon and have no worries with fit and stuff when I get them OR I could save up some more money and get the IE8s and possibly have to worry about fit and the possible need of custom tips, so at the moment the turbines look like the best option.

EDIT: most people probably listen to simpler stuff anyways given the crap that is on 90% of radio stations, so I have a bit of a special circumstance as far as I can tell.

 

[cn11]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ethan961 /img/forum/go_quote.gif yeah, I think that was my main complaint with them, they lost control on the lower end and even the mids with complex music, even some not that complex music like the new metallica stuff. The atrios handle this stuff much better. I found that the phonaks shone with stuff like linkin park and nine inch nails, stuff with cleaner notes and not complex at all - complete opposite of the atrios which I listen to my various types of metal with happily. I was using the phonaks unamped at the time, but I have an E5 on the way now for use with the atrios to possibly help the high end. As for IE8 vs Turbines, I could get the turbines soon and have no worries with fit and stuff when I get them OR I could save up some more money and get the IE8s and possibly have to worry about fit and the possible need of custom tips, so at the moment the turbines look like the best option.

I found the very same thing with the Phonaks. I listen to a lot of hard driving, demanding electronic stuff, as well as alternative/prog rock, some jazz and even a tad of hip hop. Stuff that demands engaging portrayal of the low end. As for the Atrios amped, I use them sometimes with a Mustang amp, and can say that even without a LOD, they take amping very well. I think you'll be happy with that route. But the IE8's are a huge step up. I also prefer the Turbines over them. Both of those do highs a bit more smoothly, as well as soundstage, and mids. That's if you're considering something above and beyond them. If you're happy, enjoy the Atrios with the amp. If not, save for the IE8's... I think you'd find them worth it. But the Turbines are awesome for their price too, I don't see how you can go wrong with either. Ahhhhhhh, choices.

 

[ChroniCali]

Quote:

Originally Posted by koven /img/forum/go_quote.gif How do you like the RE0 compared to the PFE... I thought about getting that but went with the PK1's instead..

PK1s definitely was a great choice, I'm glad I was able to help in your decision. I have not owned the IE8, but FWIR, that would have been an ideal choice as well. But of course, they cost a good deal more.

 

[kobayashi]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ethan961 /img/forum/go_quote.gif yeah, I think that was my main complaint with them, they lost control on the lower end and even the mids with complex music, even some not that complex music like the new metallica stuff. The atrios handle this stuff much better. I found that the phonaks shone with stuff like linkin park and nine inch nails, stuff with cleaner notes and not complex at all - complete opposite of the atrios which I listen to my various types of metal with happily. I was using the phonaks unamped at the time, but I have an E5 on the way now for use with the atrios to possibly help the high end. As for IE8 vs Turbines, I could get the turbines soon and have no worries with fit and stuff when I get them OR I could save up some more money and get the IE8s and possibly have to worry about fit and the possible need of custom tips, so at the moment the turbines look like the best option. EDIT: most people probably listen to simpler stuff anyways given the crap that is on 90% of radio stations, so I have a bit of a special circumstance as far as I can tell.

Agreed. I found the same thing with the PFEs. I described the bass as runny which sounds like what you experienced also. I found the Atrio v2 to be better than the PFE in almost every way.

 

[K_19]

Quote:

Originally Posted by cn11 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I've also been wondering lately about the thin nozzle that is used on so many armature based earphones, including the PFE's, that perhaps it lends to a bit of that uninvolving sound. The Atrios have that too, and I think it might tend to choke in the mids and soundstage. The one armature based earphone I've really liked is the TF10, and it has the wider nozzle. So does the IE8. I would love to see the Atrios updated with a better housing material, and the wider nozzle. I bet that wider nozzle helps with a more natural open sound.

Interesting theory, but one IEM that would discount that would be the SE530's, which has the thin nozzle but does well in producing mids and "natural sound" with alright soundstage. Involving would be subjective, as some find 530's involving while other do not (mainly because of the lack of highs).

 

[cn11]

Quote:

Originally Posted by K_19 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Interesting theory, but one IEM that would discount that would be the SE530's, which has the thin nozzle but does well in producing mids and "natural sound" with alright soundstage. Involving would be subjective, as some find 530's involving while other do not (mainly because of the lack of highs).

Ah yeah, good point! That's one of the only high end IEM's I haven't heard with the thin nozzle.

 

[jant71]

I learned a long time ago that the thin nozzle reduces soundstage. It should not have anything to do with involvement or engaging though.

Simple fix. I put adapters(stems cut from tips that fit the PFE's) then the tips from my UE's on them and Sennheiser tips also. The soundstage/image size almost caught up to my SF 5's instantly. Works on the Shures also. Shure soundstage size beats PFE with this mod(SE420 and SE530) though SE420 lacks depth and three dimensionality versus both PFE and the 530. The Shures win because they have a longer nozzle and the tips can be pushed back further bringing the end of the nozzle up more. The PFE can't do this.

The point is that the top to bottom height for any thin nozzle phone can be improved. The same way a megaphone works better due to its shape or talking through a funnel versus an empty paper towel roll; the funnel sounds larger since it opens up. Constricting sound never seems to help in earphones or headphones.

BTW, with the tip mod, black filters, and S-adapter(brings back most of what the black takes away in soundstage/separation/detail), the PFE is an impressive sounding phone.