[funnyworld]

I have been looking around for a sound card and then i came thread that for stereo DAC's would be better... I also read a lot of thread when asked STX is better or DAC, each had opinion going both ways..
 
So i decided to understand the equipments/chips used in these soundcards and DAC.. I think it would help make my decision better.. So my question is DAC chip used in STX - PCM1792A is better or DAC chip used in Audio-gd FUN - WM8741??
 
In aduio-gd FUN- http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/Headphoneamp/FUN/FUNEN.htm they say PCM1704 is not possible since it will be costly.. so this got me thinking is PCM1792A better than WM8741???
Since its not possible to audition it, researching more into it..
 
Any help is appreciated..
 
 
P.S: Sorry if i have posted in wrong section..

 

[FallenAngel]

Implementation is 90%, DAC chip is 10%.

 

[ecclesand]

Perhaps you should search the several hundred audio-gd threads in the Source forum.  There are a handful of a-gd fanboys there that will steer you in the "right" direction.

 

[funnyworld]

i am sorry but i didn't understand what you meant??
 
Quote:

Implementation is 90%, DAC chip is 10%.

If thats where this is to be asked then , i just hope a mod would shift this to right section...
Quote:

Perhaps you should search the several hundred audio-gd threads in the Source forum.  There are a handful of a-gd fanboys there that will steer you in the "right" direction.

 

[germanium]

They are equivolent in raw performance. How well they are utilized can make a huge difference. In the past I have liked Burr Browns implimentation compared to Cirrus Logics for example. Burr brown seems to not use switched capacitor DACs. Cirrus Logic uses switched capacitor DACs as does Wolfson however like Burr Brown, Wolfson DACs are mulilevel Delta-Sigma proccessing whereas I don't believe Currus Logics are multilevel & this may be a large difference. Wolfson & Burr Brown DACs have higher real performance than Cirrus Logic in benchmarks. The implimentation at least on the X-Fi Elite Pro (Cirrus Logic) compared to Asus Essense STX (Burr Brown) showed better audible performance in that the Essense STX had less conjested sound to me than the X-Fi Elite Pro did. Being that both the Burr  Brown  & the Wolfson are mulilevel Delta Sigma proccessors they may perform quite similarly.
 
Anouther thing that may give Burr Brown An advantage is the fact that the current to voltage is done outside the DAC wheras the Wolfson does its current to voltage conversion on the chip giving less opertunity to tailor the sound than the Burr Brown chips. On board I/V conversion is good if the implimentationis already excellent but if not having the abilty to alter it is better making the Burr Brown the better choice I feel overall.

 

[MrSlim]

"Implementation" is the circuitry around the the DAC chip that allows it to do its job, such as power supplies, grounding, input and output circuits etc.. 

 

[germanium]

Quote:

"Implementation" is the circuitry around the the DAC chip that allows it to do its job, such as power supplies, grounding, input and output circuits etc.. 

True but what the manufacturer does can limit the types of things that you can do to impliment the chip & can also apply to what the manufacturer has done inside the chip that can enhance or limt the usefullness of the chip. If the manufacturer used a low grade I/V amp inside the chip that would be a poor implimentation of the circuit inside the chip especially if the DAC portion of the chip is vastly superior than the I/V circuit & will limit any downline manufacturers implimentation. You can't make a silk purse out of a sows ear so no matter what the circuit is around the DAC if the DAC has poor internal I/V conversion you are stuck with that. You can do things to make the sound more listenable at the expence of detail in order to hide the defect in sound such as low grade coupling caps (common) but you are still going to have the conjestion with complex music no matter how good the power supply. In other words you still have a sows ear instead of a silk purse.
 
Note I'm not saying that the Wolfson chip is bad, it may be quite good in fact, but they have done some things that while making the chip easier to impliment, the options available in order to impliment the chip are in fact more limited than the Burr Brown chips as far tailoring the sound to meet the manufacturers target sound or even the users ability to alter it to his or her liking as opposed to the  Asus Essense STX implimentation which allows such tailoring by the end user..

 

[funnyworld]

Ok I am new to this sort of info but I am getting the whole picture..
 
Quote:

Asus Essense STX implimentation which allows such tailoring by the end user..

What do mean by the above statement? How is it allowing to end user to change things?

 

[germanium]

Quote:

Ok I am new to this sort of info but I am getting the whole picture..
 

What do mean by the above statement? How is it allowing to end user to change things?

 You can change not only the buffer amps but also the I/V amps on the Essense STX without having to desolder & solder as the opamps are socketed. Appearantly the I/V amps can make quite a difference as many have posted. On the wolfson DACs the only option in the opamp change catagory would be the buffer amps as the I/V conversion is done on chip so you are stuck with whatever they give you there & it better be real good if they want to compete in real terms with Burr Brown DACs. This is assuming the manufacturer decides to allow such changes.

 

[funnyworld]

Thanks germanium for the input..
Also wont buying new amps cost a lot ?
But i am not much of DIYer even if it means just replacing  amps without soldering. Always had real bad exp when playing around electronic items
 
I would prefer a straight answer for the chips mentioned above but realized i am not going to get a "A is better than B " answer..

 
I was looking for something that will complement my headphones(ath-a700) and my speakers A2's. STX is most easily available one but i am more interested in music and no games, which is why i a started looking at DAC's, since i read an amp doesn't really help a700.. Was scouting the audio-gd fun, but i see a lot of hype surrounding NFB-11 now..
But i am really confused as to how to choose.. Should i close my eye and just take a leap coz i am currently using the onboard(realtek 888) and i am going to definitely see a diff?
 

 

[MGS28]

Well one things for sure, anything is going to sound better than the standard on board Realtek, and that includes the cheaper sound cards like the Xonar dsx and dg. I also am more into stereo audio quality playback rather than gaming. Unless you have a seriously expensive HiFi & Speakers or £1000+ Headphones ...and a very critical ear I doubt the average person would be able to tell the difference between a £50 sound card and and a £200 sound card so the type of DAC chip would be be irrelevant, like previous posts have mentioned the DAC type (at this level and price) only corresponds to a small part of the final result in outright sound quality, the way the rest of the card is designed is more important. I Know for a fact whichever model sound card you choose you will be thrilled with the result compared to the on board Realtek888. Before you take the plunge THINK! do you really need to spend so much on an Essence card. I run the audio outs from a modest £45 Xonar DSX from my PC into quite an expensive Home audio amplifier and speakers (£2500 worth to be exact) and I can tell you now the sound from AAC and high bit rate mp3' files are as good if not better than what comes out of my £500 CD player.
In terms of sound characteristics I have found in the past that the Creative cards seems to have a more warmer softer & sweeter sound than the Xonars (no matter what DAC used) some people like that and some prefer the more sharper cleaner and articulate sound of the Xonar cards. Dont get too embroiled on the types of DACs though because as I said its not just the type DAC chip that gives the final result through your speakers. Personally if you really want serious quality and are prepared to spend a bit more money then consider an outboard DAC with USB like Cambridge's DAC Magic Plus or The superb Arcam IrDAC. The Cambridge uses a Wolfson and I believe the Arcam uses a Burrbrown, both are great and more versatile than a sound card. Hope some of that helps.

 

[Maideen Haja]

the PCM1795 is even better PCM1792A & PCM1794A
it is 32 bit and lower THD .
why manufacturer use cheap IC and boast?

 

[MGS28]

32 bit and lower THD is not the full story, if implemented poorly can sound just average. Done right with the proper power regulation, components a cheap DAC can sometimes sound better than a more expensive DAC. A lot of time, effort & design goes into getting it RIGHT.

 

[germanium]

  the PCM1795 is even better PCM1792A & PCM1794A
it is 32 bit and lower THD .
why manufacturer use cheap IC and boast?

The PCM 1795 is not better than the 1792A or 1794A. Signal to noise is worse, Dynamic range is worse. It is a cheaper chip that offers 32 bit compatibility but still does not max out what can be done with either of those 2-24 bit chips & not even close to 24 bit performance limits let alone 32 bit limits. Both the 1792A &1794A are in fact top of the line DAC chips with equivalent performance. Depending on where you look PCM1792A has THD+noise spec of .0004%. Same for the PCM 1794A. These are both from TI. PDF datasheet as is the .0005% for the PCM1795. That makes the other 2 better in every way. However successful designs with excellent sound is possible with any one of these chips. Please try not to give out inaccurate information. Go to the PDF data sheets to get your information. Unfortunately T.I. did give out some inaccurate information in their store copy so T.I is in part at fault here so not blaming you for this.. 
 
Definitely a necro thread here. Older than the hills