PCIE sound card optical output better than motherboard one?

[despinos]

Hello,
First of all, greetings from Malaga, Spain from a newbie to this Forum
 
I have an HTPC with an Asus P8 Z77-M pro mobo connected through the mobo's optical out to a DSP device (a Vincent SAV C1), which feeds a multichannel amplifier (a nice 7x200 Crestron feeding a 5.1 setup: 3 Sunfire CRM speakers, a pair of Gallo's a'Diva Tis and a DIY sub).
 
I would appreciate some advice on :
 
-  Would (in my system) a good PCIe sound card, using its digital (optical or coaxial) out,  improve overall sound quality over the motherboard's own optical one? (I remember reading somewhere that not all "optical outs" have the same build quality.) Which card (windows 7 compatible) would you recommend for it's digital out?
 
- As I have a nice DSP (the Vincent),  I guess that audio processing will be better done by the Vincent, compared to any internal sound card. Correct?
 
The HTPC plays movies and music stored on an HDD  (FLAC for music and assorted formats for movies).
 
 - Would storing the music on an SSD (already available) improve sound "quality" perception compared to storage on an HDD? Two cases here:
              - Internal HTPC storage
              - A logitech touch with a disk (containing music) conected to its USB port.
 
Thanks in advance :

 

[3ntropy]

It's all digital, I don't see how it would affect it. Or mechanical vs SSD either.

 

[despinos]

Thx, I don't see it either... still considering the ssd vs. Hdd for the logit touch for reliability issues, though
Any more opinions/reflexions?

 

[PleasantSounds]

Welcome to the head-fi despinos!

-  Would (in my system) a good PCIe sound card, using its digital (optical or coaxial) out,  improve overall sound quality over the motherboard's own optical one? (I remember reading somewhere that not all "optical outs" have the same build quality.) Which card (windows 7 compatible) would you recommend for it's digital out?
 

 
The outcome of using S/PDIF output from a good quality soundcard vs. motherboard is not obvious, so let me just state that I'm just expressing my own opinion: in theory there may be some difference in jitter, but it's highly unlikely you will notice it (in most cases is well below audible levels). I don't know enough about the SAV C1 and how it processes digital signals to tell for sure if there would be any difference at all. Some higher quality DACs buffer the data and use their own clock, but the connection standard dictates that it is the sender that controls the timing - in that case jitter would be slightly higher. 
I'm not going to recommend any card, as in my view you don't need one.
 

- As I have a nice DSP (the Vincent),  I guess that audio processing will be better done by the Vincent, compared to any internal sound card. Correct?
 

 
In general terms yes. There may be specific hardware combinations that will work better the other way, but I'd go with your solution even if you had a good soundcard for the following reasons:
- you're transmitting digital signal between the two, and it's less prone to interference and other distortions
- Vincent probably has a much better (less noisy) power supply, which is very important to analog circuits
- processing happens away from the sources of interference like CPU or graphics card
 

- Would storing the music on an SSD (already available) improve sound "quality" perception compared to storage on an HDD? Two cases here:
              - Internal HTPC storage
              - A logitech touch with a disk (containing music) conected to its USB port.

 
Putting music on an SSD will not make any difefrence to the quality. Whether you play it from a memory stick, SSD, HD, locally or over the network, your PC will always process it the same way and feed the same data to the DAC. The only difference you could notice would be if you took the HD out of the PC - it may run quieter reducing the background noise. It may also take more or less time to load the file, but that's hardly ever a concern.

 

[Noirkw91]

Quote:

Welcome to the head-fi despinos!

-  Would (in my system) a good PCIe sound card, using its digital (optical or coaxial) out,  improve overall sound quality over the motherboard's own optical one? (I remember reading somewhere that not all "optical outs" have the same build quality.) Which card (windows 7 compatible) would you recommend for it's digital out?
 

 
The outcome of using S/PDIF output from a good quality soundcard vs. motherboard is not obvious, so let me just state that I'm just expressing my own opinion: in theory there may be some difference in jitter, but it's highly unlikely you will notice it (in most cases is well below audible levels). I don't know enough about the SAV C1 and how it processes digital signals to tell for sure if there would be any difference at all. Some higher quality DACs buffer the data and use their own clock, but the connection standard dictates that it is the sender that controls the timing - in that case jitter would be slightly higher. 
I'm not going to recommend any card, as in my view you don't need one.
 

- As I have a nice DSP (the Vincent),  I guess that audio processing will be better done by the Vincent, compared to any internal sound card. Correct?
 

 
In general terms yes. There may be specific hardware combinations that will work better the other way, but I'd go with your solution even if you had a good soundcard for the following reasons:
- you're transmitting digital signal between the two, and it's less prone to interference and other distortions
- Vincent probably has a much better (less noisy) power supply, which is very important to analog circuits
- processing happens away from the sources of interference like CPU or graphics card
 

- Would storing the music on an SSD (already available) improve sound "quality" perception compared to storage on an HDD? Two cases here:
              - Internal HTPC storage
              - A logitech touch with a disk (containing music) conected to its USB port.

 
Putting music on an SSD will not make any difefrence to the quality. Whether you play it from a memory stick, SSD, HD, locally or over the network, your PC will always process it the same way and feed the same data to the DAC. The only difference you could notice would be if you took the HD out of the PC - it may run quieter reducing the background noise. It may also take more or less time to load the file, but that's hardly ever a concern.

This has given me a lot of insight to my mini htpc. thanks !

 

[trog]

Actually for a dedicated HTPC one should not be fiddling around with an addon soundcard IMO - just pass HDMI to a HDMI AVR and it's all good ^^

 

[despinos]

Quote:

Actually for a dedicated HTPC one should not be fiddling around with an addon soundcard IMO - just pass HDMI to a HDMI AVR and it's all good ^^

HDMI? A good sugestion... only problem is that my AVR (the Vincent SAV C1) has no HDMI connections. I send directly only video from the HTPC graphic card to the TV and to a projector and audio goes optically from the HTPC mobo into my receiver (DSP).
 
I had considered also to buy a sound card with 5.1 (or 7.1) analogue outputs and connect with RCA to the 5.1 analogue inputs of the Vincent receiver.
This way I could transmit uncompressed audio from the HTPC to the Vincent DSP.
 
In this case I guess that DSP decoding would have been done by the sound card, and the Vincent would only act as preamp for the 6 channels. As I said in other post, it would be possibly unwise , considering that the Vincent machine cost new (in year 2.006) about 10 times the price of mainstream current soundcards (e.g. Asus Essence and Soundblaster XFis).

 

[despinos]

Quote:

Actually for a dedicated HTPC one should not be fiddling around with an addon soundcard IMO - just pass HDMI to a HDMI AVR and it's all good ^^

HDMI? A good sugestion... only problem is that my AVR (the Vincent SAV C1) has no HDMI connections. I send directly only video from the HTPC graphic card to the TV and to a projector and audio goes optically from the HTPC mobo into my receiver (DSP).
 
I had considered also to buy a sound card with 5.1 (or 7.1) analogue outputs and connect with RCA to the 5.1 analogue inputs of the Vincent receiver.
This way I could transmit uncompressed audio from the HTPC to the Vincent DSP.
 
In this case I guess that DSP decoding would have been done by the sound card, and the Vincent would only act as preamp for the 6 channels. As I said in other post, it would be possibly unwise , considering that the Vincent machine cost new (in year 2.006) about 10 times the price of mainstream current soundcards (e.g. Asus Essence and Soundblaster XFis).

 

[trog]

Quote:

HDMI? A good sugestion... only problem is that my AVR (the Vincent SAV C1) has no HDMI connections. I send directly only video from the HTPC graphic card to the TV and to a projector and audio goes optically from the HTPC mobo into my receiver (DSP).
 
I had considered also to buy a sound card with 5.1 (or 7.1) analogue outputs and connect with RCA to the 5.1 analogue inputs of the Vincent receiver.

 
Hmm if fry's is an option $139 nets ya a Denon AVR 1312
http://www.frys.com/product/6599413?site=sr:SEARCH:MAIN_RSLT_PG

 

[cel4145]

HDMI? A good sugestion... only problem is that my AVR (the Vincent SAV C1) has no HDMI connections. I send directly only video from the HTPC graphic card to the TV and to a projector and audio goes optically from the HTPC mobo into my receiver (DSP).

Might be time to upgrade the processor. Looks like it might not have any room correction features, either. How are you EQing your setup?

 

[despinos]

Regarding Eq i gave a try to a digital room correction called DrCop. Just stereo and did not work for me.
Hence, i have no equalization now and i have been tempted to  buy a receiber with auddisthingy or similar. Still reluctant to get ridden of the vincent, which i barely used. Also own a linn classik movie 2005 which i used through its optical in and fed it from the htpc. I believed that i got 5.1 from the linn, but now I'm not sure.
I got the crestron 7x200 just a week ago, as i wanted to give moee juice to the sunfires than the linn could provide. Then i discovered that maybe the linn does not decode well 5.1 from the digital in, so i retrieved the vincent pre from storage. Have not really had time to check how well the htc plus vincent and crestron perform together.
Room correction is a something i should really try, and i guess it would be fine to use a receiver with audiss to feed the crestron.
I have a chance to buy an ultimate sunfire receib, though I am not sure if it has eq.
We may add to the equation that i want to upgrade my projector, an infocus 7205, and that the better half  is notvery supportive in this hobby...

 

[despinos]

The denon at frys is a steal! Problem is that they will probably not ship it to Spain.

 

[cel4145]

Yeah. Audyssey MultiEQ XT32 would be a plus if you can find a processor with it. The Emotiva XMC-1 looks promising for you, particularly since it has separate parametric EQ functionality for the subs. You could measure the response yourself and set the EQ the way you want it.

 

[despinos]

Quote:

Yeah. Audyssey MultiEQ XT32 would be a plus if you can find a processor with it. The Emotiva XMC-1 looks promising for you, particularly since it has separate parametric EQ functionality for the subs. You could measure the response yourself and set the EQ the way you want it.

The Emotiva looks like a good upgrade option. Actually, I have been following a used UMC-1 that is been auctioned. I wonder how the XMC-1 compares to the UMC-1...?
 
I realized that the UMC-1 actual equivalent is the UMC-200. A fast read of its specs suggest that it is similar to the UMC, but with less conectivity and possibly some minor upgrades, like in hdmi switching. Th eUMC-1 has video component out, which may be useful for me.
 
I wonder if the UMC-1 can pass the video from an HDMI in to the component out?

 

[mjrussell91]

Quote:

-  Would (in my system) a good PCIe sound card, using its digital (optical or coaxial) out,  improve overall sound quality over the motherboard's own optical one? (I remember reading somewhere that not all "optical outs" have the same build quality.) Which card (windows 7 compatible) would you recommend for it's digital out?

You could theoretically get less jitter from an external digital output. However, in my opinion, I would be surprised if you heard a difference. I don't believe the on-board is of a poor enough quality to warrant the additional expense of a soundcard just to get a 'better' S/PDIF output. Bits are bits. So long as they are all getting to the other end...
 
If you're really concerned though, a card like this has a dedicated S/PDIF out and is pretty cheap at ~AUD$50, and has better drivers than the Creative cards in my opinion and support for Windows 7. http://www.asus.com/Sound_Cards_and_DigitaltoAnalog_Converters/Xonar_DGX
 
I had the Asus Xonar STX (and the DGX originally) for a while, and it was a good card for ~AUD$200, but it don't think that is $200 well spent just for a EMI shielded S/PDIF output circuit.
 
Quote:

 
- As I have a nice DSP (the Vincent),  I guess that audio processing will be better done by the Vincent, compared to any internal sound card. Correct?

The Vincent will likely do better at DSPs than a dedicated soundcard. I doubt there is a card on the market that would outperform the Vincent. I wouldn't bother.

 

 - Would storing the music on an SSD (already available) improve sound "quality" perception compared to storage on an HDD? Two cases here:
              - Internal HTPC storage
              - A logitech touch with a disk (containing music) conected to its USB port.

No difference what so ever from any storage medium you use. SSDs are very fast, and probably worth the money for a quick, responsive computer. But that's about the only benefit you'll get. No sound improvement. Again, bits are bits.
 
 
 
In my opinion, what you have listed is fine. I know that it can seem counter-intuitive to plug all your expensive gear in to the cheap, run-of-the-mill output and expect maximum quality. But in these circumstances you're doing about as good as you can. I think that your money would be better spent else where, for what its worth.