[atarione]

Some how in decades of PC usage this is the 1st time I have had this issue with my current pc.

I don't think it is a ground loop, as the sound is more like a clicking noise from electrical noise from the computer itself, shutting the pc down / putting it to sleep stops the noise as well. (still plugged in and power switch on psu still on).

These are the symptoms so far:

SMSL SU-1 dac: clicking noise changes in pitch /sound with usage of pc mouse keyboard..etc computer activity and noise is present when pc is sitting idle as well. The issue is present on both USB and Optical input when powering the DAC with PC's usb ports or powered hub attached to pc, optical doesn't have noise when powering the DAC with a separate USB power supply.

Onboard audio has the issue as well on 3.5mm jack and the optical out seems ok when the previously mentioned DAC is power by separate non pc usb ports /hub.

For testing I also got out my old FiiO E07K and it has the same clicking sound issues as onboard anaglog audio and the SMSL when using usb from the pc.

Steinberg UR22mkII seems unaffected either w/ PC power or using an external USB power supply.

I am wondering if a USB noise Isolator like the Topping HS02 will help with the SMSL SU-1 DAC? Or if something like an AC power conditioner (looked at the ELAC Protek 8 on amazon for example) may help or something else entirely?

 

[dunring]

How old is the power supply in the computer? They tend to last 5-7 years, 10 at the most before failing or degrading. I'd first check to see if your power supply is screwed in firmly, since those work as ground contacts to the case.

 

[atarione]

The case and powersupply are both from my old build the power supply is probably about 7~ yrs old, it is a Seasonic X750, I will have a look at this tomorrow and make sure the screws haven't backed off somehow. They certainly were firmly screwed in when i built this computer. Unfortunately I am in need of hip replacement and so digging around under the desk is going to be a bit of a challenge, but I shall get it done.

However the issue is new as this wasn't happening with this pc previously? a few months ago for sure, I don't honestly use headphones often and I didn't notice it till today when I plugged my DT770's into my amp and heard the electrical noise.

 

[yage]

The isolator will probably help - I'd try that first.

 

[atarione]

i wish I had a spare psu laying about to try swapping it out to see if this changes anything, I checked the screws holding the psu and to my surprise they all seemed to have backed out a bit, one in particular was surprisingly loose but tightening these had no impact on the issue.

 

[atarione]

Well.... I have done additional troubleshooting and nothing helps.. made sure all equipment on same power-strip, disconnected all other USB devices except the SMSL SU-1 problem persists..

I'm now trying to decide if to try to find a DAC with better (galvanic?) isolation or if to try buying the topping HS02... which is an annoying option as it cost more than the SMSL SU-1 DAC itself?

 

[sygnus21]

How old is the power supply in the computer? They tend to last 5-7 years, 10 at the most before failing or degrading. I'd first check to see if your power supply is screwed in firmly, since those work as ground contacts to the case.

As one who's been building PCs since 1998. with my last build in 2019 (and a potential build this year, until a new Hi-Fi system took precedence), please explain to my how a power supply degrades? From my experience power supplies either work or fail completely.

At any rate and given the issue... there could be a possibility the USB controller on the board is going. That could explain the noise. But that's just one guess of a million other things that could be going on with the PC. One question I have for the OP is are any of their USB peripherals (mouse, keyboard) acting up as well?

It would help to know the system specs of the PC, and also how old said PC is?

However the issue is new as this wasn't happening with this pc previously? a few months ago for sure, I don't honestly use headphones often and I didn't notice it till today when I plugged my DT770's into my amp and heard the electrical noise.

Are you absolutely, sure the amp itself isn't the issue?

And again, my guess it based on what's presented here, but there's much more to consider in addition to the above - media playback setup? Does DAC require USB drivers? Are configured correctly? Did anything in the system recently change - OS updates?

Lastly, before spending money on a "maybe this will work solution", you might try to figure out what's really the issue before getting something that may not solve the issue?

Your money, but just saying.

 

[atarione]

At any rate and given the issue... there could be a possibility the USB controller on the board is going. That could explain the noise. But that's just one guess of a million other things that could be going on with the PC. One question I have for the OP is are any of their USB peripherals (mouse, keyboard) acting up as well?

It would help to know the system specs of the PC, and also how old said PC is?


Are you absolutely, sure the amp itself isn't the issue?

And again, my guess it based on what's presented here, but there's much more to consider in addition to the above - media playback setup? Does DAC require USB drivers? Are configured correctly? Did anything in the system recently change - OS updates?

Lastly, before spending money on a "maybe this will work solution", you might try to figure out what's really the issue before getting something that may not solve the issue?

Your money, but just saying.

PC is about 1.5~yrs old, Specs i7-12700K / X690 Aorus Elite AX / 32GB DDR5 (corsair ddr5 5200) / Samsung 980 Pro 2TB / RTX3070FE and reusing a case from 2014 (NZXT H630 and Seasonic X750 power supply.)

It isn't the amp as I have multiple amps (Creek OBH-11 / FiiO E09K / DV336SE / Sony TA-E77ESD / Pioneer SX-3600 receiver and for laughs dug out my FiiO E07K as well.) All these amps work fine using my phone as a source w/ the SMSL SU-1 or FiiO E07K or even a cheap usb dongle dac. no electrical noise. If I hook the optical of the pc upto the SMSL SU-1 and then power it using my USB power bank the optical audio out put is fine (no noise issues.) on the optical input.

Drivers are updated (no new drivers for the DAC. Additionally I have a Steinberg UR22mkII which is not having the electrical noise either using bus power or separate USB 5V power supply... The Steinberg is hooked up to a Pioneer SA-710 TRS to RCA cable and it is fine (no noise on either the DAW's headphone jack or on headphone or speaker outputs on the Pionner.

Previously I was using a FiiO D03K (optical from pc / external usb 5v power) the issue didn't exist with this setup as it wasn't using pc usb bus power but was plugged into to a usb power supply.

but using the pc the SMSL SU-1 and FiiO E07K and onboard audio all have the same problem (electrical clicking noises that change when moving mouse) powered hub doesn't change this either... no does changing usb ports (including front / and USB C ports.

edit:: other than audio device noise no other USB issues are occuring w/ mouse / keyboards ..etc.

 

[atarione]

so currently I am listenting to my PC with the following SMSL SU-1 (optical input from motherboard) > Creek OBH-11 > DT770 Pro 80s and it sounds great..
The DAC (SMSL) is hooke up to a separate powerbank for power .. no noise / static..etc .... The problem is something with the USB power from the PC.

 

[sygnus21]

PC is about 1.5~yrs old, Specs i7-12700K / X690 Aorus Elite AX / 32GB DDR5 (corsair ddr5 5200) / Samsung 980 Pro 2TB / RTX3070FE and reusing a case from 2014 (NZXT H630 and Seasonic X750 power supply.)....

First off kudos for the system specs. You'd bring tears of joy over at elevenforums.com com, as lots of times, it takes an act of congress to even get someone to say tell you the OS... which Ironically here, you failed to mention, but I won't ding for that, being you've provided actual system specs

As per your issue, let's just stick to what's actually using the USB ports to keep things clean and simple, being that's where you say the issue is arising from. With that, I need this part clarified as I try to isolate the issues for you....

SMSL SU-1 dac: clicking noise changes in pitch /sound with usage of pc mouse keyboard..etc computer activity and noise is present when pc is sitting idle as well.

Idle as meaning no music is playing from any components connected to the PC? Does this noise happen even if no audio devices are connected???

Also, by you saying this...

The issue is present on both USB and Optical input when powering the DAC with PC's usb ports or powered hub attached to pc, optical doesn't have noise when powering the DAC with a separate USB power supply.

Onboard audio has the issue as well on 3.5mm jack and the optical out seems ok when the previously mentioned DAC is power by separate non pc usb ports /hub.

leads me to believe the issues isn't isolated to the USB ports as the Optical input/input (belonging to either the onboard or dedicated soundcard) has zero to do with the USB ports. The fact is you don't even need a soundcard when using a USB port for sound as those paths are isolated sound wise.

With that, what do you mean by Optical input - Input to what? Output coming from where?

Additionally, I'm not a fan of connecting audio devices to external hubs and much rather have them directly connected to the PC. With that, have you tried running without a HUB (removing it)? Could it be the hub is causing the issue?

Also, regarding the power supplies age (7 years old), and in rethinking my post to @dunring, are you sure the power supply isn't/wasn't faulty? It's actually possible one of the rails - 3.3Volt, 5V, or 12volt rail is going, and that could produce noise, but also typically here you would be experiencing hard crashes and lockups as devices are starved of power. With that, is it possible to swap out the PS for testing purposes?

Sorry, but noise/electrical issues are never easy to solve and require a systematic approach to finding the issue. That requires a bit of trial and patience.

Edit, I seemed to have missed the post above this, and I'm tired, so....

 

[yage]

Like I posted before - try the USB isolator. The Topping should work. Or replace the DAC with balanced output or a better engineered USB input.

 

[atarione]

First off kudos for the system specs. You'd bring tears of joy over at elevenforums.com com, as lots of times, it takes an act of congress to even get someone to say tell you the OS... which Ironically here, you failed to mention, but I won't ding for that, being you've provided actual system specs

As per your issue, let's just stick to what's actually using the USB ports to keep things clean and simple, being that's where you say the issue is arising from. With that, I need this part clarified as I try to isolate the issues for you....

Idle as meaning no music is playing from any components connected to the PC? Does this noise happen even if no audio devices are connected???

Also, by you saying this...

leads me to believe the issues isn't isolated to the USB ports as the Optical input/input (belonging to either the onboard or dedicated soundcard) has zero to do with the USB ports. The fact is you don't even need a soundcard when using a USB port for sound as those paths are isolated sound wise.

With that, what do you mean by Optical input - Input to what? Output coming from where?

Additionally, I'm not a fan of connecting audio devices to external hubs and much rather have them directly connected to the PC. With that, have you tried running without a HUB (removing it)? Could it be the hub is causing the issue?

Also, regarding the power supplies age (7 years old), and in rethinking my post to @dunring, are you sure the power supply isn't/wasn't faulty? It's actually possible one of the rails - 3.3Volt, 5V, or 12volt rail is going, and that could produce noise, but also typically here you would be experiencing hard crashes and lockups as devices are starved of power. With that, is it possible to swap out the PS for testing purposes?

Sorry, but noise/electrical issues are never easy to solve and require a systematic approach to finding the issue. That requires a bit of trial and patience.

Edit, I seemed to have missed the post above this, and I'm tired, so....

Lol.. forgot the OS : Win 11 Pro (os is fully updated as are drivers and bios) ...

Honestly I don't even remember what I meant by "idle" now it was late and or I may have had a couple beverages... but ::
All the various amps are dead quite if not attached to the PC but if the pc is just sitting there any of them hooked up via USB or onboard audio the noise is present in background .. but it will change in tone or whatever when you move mouse or use the pc in some way.

I think the optical question got answered but yeah if I run the optical out from the pc to the SMSL SU-1 w/ it hooked up to the pc's usb for power the niose is present on optical as well, however if I power the DAC with something else like the powerbank optical doesn't have noise at that point.

I do have a old Cosair PSU 650W that I am going to try swapping in at some point, however it is a fair bit of work because it is in another pc, soooo it may be a bit before I have time to try this, I work from home so taking my computer offline is a bit complicated as I can't afford to be down for too long. In fairness the Seasonic had a 8yr warranty as I recall so it is still in it's expected lifespan apparently according to Seasonic?

the dac has been tried on all the motherboard's usb ports / front panel / usb c ... as well as the hub and I tired it with all USB devices besides the dac disconnected and the noise is present regardless.

However my Steinberg UR22mkII is dead silent when hooked up to the pc with either bus power or external 5V power supply.. (selectable switch on the DAW).

At this point I am debating getting a USB Isolator or cutting my losses and get a new dac (with good return policy?) the HS02 is $90 which annoyingly is about $20 more than the SMSL SU-1 was, spending $90 to fix a $70 DAC is annoying? I was looking at the JDS Labs Atom DAC 2 as it has good reviews and seems to use a seperate powersupply? so hopefully it would be unaffected by the USB noise on this computer?

And or I am very open to DAC recomendations $200 or under ideally.

 

[sygnus21]

First things first, and just checking, have you installed the chipset drivers (Intel INF and Intel Serial I/O driver) for your board? I doubt that'll solve the issue, but you never know, and it only takes a minute. With that....

All the various amps are dead quite if not attached to the PC but if the pc is just sitting there any of them hooked up via USB or onboard audio the noise is present in background .. but it will change in tone or whatever when you move mouse or use the pc in some way.

Yeah, not concerned what the amps are doing when not connected to the PC as you'd already told me the amps weren't the issue.

I'm curious of what comes out the PC when no amp is connected to it? Is there any noise when the mouse of keyboard is used (again, no amps connected)?

I think the optical question got answered but yeah if I run the optical out from the pc to the SMSL SU-1 w/ it hooked up to the pc's usb for power the niose is present on optical as well, however if I power the DAC with something else like the powerbank optical doesn't have noise at that point.

This tells me the issue isn't limited to the USB ports but also to the soundcard.

I do have a old Cosair PSU 650W that I am going to try swapping in at some point, however it is a fair bit of work because it is in another pc, soooo it may be a bit before I have time to try this,

The level of urgency is only matched by the level of importance

That said, I understand your dilemma, as I've removed a few power supplies myself, which, yeah, isn't fun. And why, I now use modular powers supplies (but that's a different story). As I said, I'm a system builder myself. Would have built a new system last month, but I just bought a new DAC and headphone amp, so no build this year.

In fairness the Seasonic had a 8yr warranty as I recall so it is still in it's expected lifespan apparently according to Seasonic?

Doesn't mean things can die of go bad prematurely.

Anyway, another possibility is your GPU (RTX 3070FE) may be generating coil whine (electronic components vibrating at specific frequencies when current flows through them). Coil whine is mostly associated with GPUs, but I can also emanate from the power supply. If you Google "coil whine" you will see all sorts of posts about it.

With that, I'd still look at the power supply, and especially if the noise is present without anything attached.

BTW (and also) did you build your PC or buy it? Either way you might look inside it and make sure nothing is shorting or loose. Also, that there are posts between motherboard and PC case.

At this point I am debating getting a USB Isolator or cutting my losses and get a new dac (with good return policy?)

Your choice, but be aware, the issue could still be there since a USB isolator is going into.... a USB port Anyway, for all my suggestions, be aware it's still all guesswork based on the info given. If the system were mine, I'd at minimum open it up and check nothing is loose or shorting. But that's me.