[mjg]

Quote:

Originally Posted by fewtch Like Hollywood, MS seems to be focusing more & more on eye candy. Make things easier for beginning users, while simultaneously making it more difficult for advanced users. I wish they'd release a basic, functional GUI similar to Win2k, and leave the candy for those who actually want to play with their OS rather than get stuff done. MS basically lost me with the release of Windows XP. When Win2k is no longer viable I will be switching to something else (probably Linux, which will hopefully have improved Windows app compatibility even more by then). I've messed around with Linux before and have the general idea, so it shouldn't be too much of a learning curve... what I want is better Windows compatibility.

the point of an advanced gui isn't "eye candy", it's to improve and expediete nearly any task. People mistake an elegant and simple interface, or a showy one for an asthetical value rather then really understand why they are designed.

They aren't designed particullarly to entertain the user or impress them, but to provide the most efficent interface as possible. HCI is a rather hot topic in computer science, it isn't trivial... The people involved in Human Computer Interaction aren't like movie producers, they are brilliant computer scientists and psychologists. The interfaces of the future depend on incremental steps like mac osx and vista. To make something not ugly, and also not so complex as to piss people off is a science. So before you marginalize an advanced gui as a toy, you should consider those elements.

I do all my work on computers, as a software developer and Computer Scientist, I have a great appreciation for a well designed and powerful interface. It doesn't make me feel any more special to make anything remedial task a routine when not necessary, to reduce a 10 step task to a 3 step task is a feat! If as part of the design it has a quick learning curve, that itself is to it's credit.

edit in: what linux needs isn't better windows compatibility, it needs more and better development from big software names. it wasn't ever intended to be a windows emulator.

 

[lewtz]

As long as there is a windows classic theme, I'm ok. I don't like all the big icon, bubbly, "pretty" crap. Squared off and minimal is what I want.

 

[mr_baseball_08]

Quote:

Originally Posted by brian183 I absolutely hate XP.

Why?

 

[mjg]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lewtz As long as there is a windows classic theme, I'm ok. I don't like all the big icon, bubbly, "pretty" crap. Squared off and minimal is what I want.

try running x11 with windowmaker or something. if you wanna be super hardcore, you can get a programmable keyboard and foot pedal. Never use a mouse again, geek-core.

 

[falkon72]

I don't know the validity of the rest of the review for Vista but I can honestly say that the differentiation between the windows section is a bunch of crap.

First of all, I have experience with the Vista UI every day and I can honestly tell you that 90% of the people who see the new glass windows will never go back. It just looks good. Sure there are a few exceptions out there but heck, you can always change the windows settings back.

Second of all, you can easily differentiate between the windows. I run a 1680 by 1050 resolution and often I run many windows simultaneously. I can honestly say that I've never had a problem differentiating the windows. The key is the red X in the top right corner. Now you're gonna say, "oh yeah right.. like that's enough of a difference to tell". Well it is. If you use it for more than an hour that is. Take this for example. Your cursor is a 2/3cm vertical bar that is about a millimeter wide. Why is it that you never complain about losing that? The key is that once your brain knows what it's looking for, you don't even have to think about it. You just KNOW which window is on top.

 

[nikongod]

Quote:

Originally Posted by saturnine Microsoft will keep prospering, even though the enthusiasts dislike them. Most of their money comes from OEM software, and I don't see Dell/Compaq/Gateway/etc including *nix on any home computer line any time soon.

microsoft may not keep on prospering.
the home computer lines are based on "buisness computers" and the computers sold solely for office use. if the offices and medium-large buisness goto a new os, for user computers the hardware boxers will change suit to comply.

weather this happens soon, or in the long distant future is a solid question.

as you say, whaqt enthusiasts want will never drive the market. with an alarmingly few home computers using ANY form *nix in any mutation, this is blatantly obvious. similar to audio trends following the masses as opposed to the "right." at least with the options offered by *nix there are options, and those who want "better" (diferent?) are not forced to comply to garbage "mass-market standards."

 

[AlanY]

Quote:

Originally Posted by falkon72 Second of all, you can easily differentiate between the windows. I run a 1680 by 1050 resolution and often I run many windows simultaneously. I can honestly say that I've never had a problem differentiating the windows. The key is the red X in the top right corner. Now you're gonna say, "oh yeah right.. like that's enough of a difference to tell". Well it is. If you use it for more than an hour that is. Take this for example. Your cursor is a 2/3cm vertical bar that is about a millimeter wide. Why is it that you never complain about losing that? The key is that once your brain knows what it's looking for, you don't even have to think about it. You just KNOW which window is on top.

That seems a little weak to me. I'm operating system agnostic (still trying to decide between a PC and a Mac for my next computer), but one of the things I like about OS X is that it's very easy to tell which window is active. You get the same title bar highlight you get in Windows XP, but you also get a subtle drop shadow effect around the three lower sides of the window that really helps draw the eye from the stack of windows beneath. Eye candy gets old, but it's little things like this that you appreciate.

That said, I'm sure Microsoft will improve how Vista looks before they ship it. I'm glad they're getting away from the default XP blue/orange color scheme with the oversized title bars. That has always puzzled me. Blue and orange do not look good together. If I went into an attorney's office and the room's interior color scheme was blue and orange, I'd probably be sufficiently frightened about his judgment or level of professionalism to think about finding another attorney.

 

[003]

I've known about these problems from the beginning. Nothing new. I'm not buying vista. This dosn't even mention the issues about directx/opengl (which I don't care to get into right now).

 

[lewtz]

Why do people have problems knowing which window is on top. Heck if you want to do something in a window it automatically comes to the top. I regularly have 10+ windows open, with tons of firfox tabs... I don't see the deal with which window is in the front.

 

[AlanY]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lewtz Why do people have problems knowing which window is on top. Heck if you want to do something in a window it automatically comes to the top. I regularly have 10+ windows open, with tons of firfox tabs... I don't see the deal with which window is in the front.

It's a subtle thing, not a huge issue. When you've got a stack of windows on the screen, there are a bunch of vertical and horizontal lines (window borders) and a bunch of distracting little icons and text and whatnot. Having something to draw your eye helps you focus and concentrate. When you turn away and then turn back to the monitor, there's no moment of "cognitive confusion" where you have to assimilate what's there and figure out where you left off.

It's a lot like magazine and book layout. There are all sorts of psychological studies showing how we use cues to focus in on certain elements of the page and ignore others.

If you want to play around with this for yourself, try using a black and white (greyscale) monitor for a while. (On a Mac you can simulate this with the "Universal Access" preferences panel.) It's harder to tell exactly how things are arranged, what's in front, etc. when the color cues are removed. You don't expect it, but it really is. I use this effect when I want to deeply concentrate on typing a document. I switch the display to greyscale and it reduces the effect of all the various distractions onscreen (icons, buttons, borders, etc.), and I find I really get into a zone where I concentrate on just the document. Fullscreen mode does this too, of course, but not all applications support it, and fullscreen makes occasionally switching to other apps and using toolbar buttons, etc. more of a roadblock.