Oritek vs Zap Filter modded Zhaolu 2.5 shoot out

[johnsonad]

Well here goes my first comparison, the Oritek Zhaolu 2.5 and a Zap Filter Mark II Zhaolu 2.5. Cotdt (Philip) and I spent a few hours going A/B with these two great DAC’s.
Here is the set up.
-Squeezebox streaming Apple Lossless, Air 10,000 Hz Legend tracks 5 and 7 and a few other random pieces.
-Monster Cable I-1000 (something) digital interconnect
-Oritek modded Zhaolu 2.5
-Zap Filter modded Zhaolu 2.5
-splitter with APureSound Audio carbon covered cotton interconnects, and Philip’s interconnects
-Dodge 6210 driving AD2000
-WA6 driving AH-D2000 and HD650’s (stock cable)

To start, this was fun! Thanks to Philip for bringing over his gear for part one of this shoot out. Before starting I said to myself, ‘how much difference can there really be?’ The base DAC is the same with two great mods. They should be pretty similar right? Not even close is the only way I can put it. This really opened my mind to DAC’s as I was on the fence with them before having not spent any time listening to one outside of a dedicated source. I’m still not great at phrasing a lot of this but will do my best. Please feel free to PM me with questions if it ends up confusing…. I’ll start with the Zap Filter modded Zhaolu 2.5.

Philip did a great build on this DAC. Please PM him for details. To start with, the output voltage is much higher with the Zap Filter and in between DAC’s we were constantly turning the volume up and down.
The soundstage was much smaller with little to no forward projection. Lateral stage was good and similar to the Oritek. The base was more pronounced and powerful. I am a bass head at times but knowing these two songs very well, the extra bass was a little too much. Enough so that it overpowered the midrange. Speaking of midrange, it was a little recessed. Vocals were not as ‘realistic’ IMHO and with the extra base, smaller soundstage a recessed midrange, they could get lost at times. Treble was extended future than the Oritek and had more punch though this IMO was not accurate to the other three sources that I’ve listened to these songs on in the past. Did it sound good? Yes, very much so but it did not do as well as the Oritek with the music we used.

The Oritek modded Zhaolu 2.5. This came into my house after an upgrade to my speaker system and the need for a flexible source. After hearing the Squeezebox at the International Meet I was sold. Ast had recommended the Oritek to me and on his recommendation it found a new home. A few small details first. The output voltage is much lower and we had to turn the volume up a little higher than usual (not greater than 1100 on the WA6 which is a little higher than what I am used to with the NS9100ES). It runs MUCH cooler than the Zap Filter. Ori did a great build on these and the new faceplate looks great! Now to the details. The first thing that came to mind every time we switched was that this sounds much more realistic or real. The soundstage is HUGE in all directions. Voices are where then should be, in front of me not in the middle of my head. The separation of instruments was much more apparent with the larger soundstage and you could take the time to enjoy each of them on their own and together. The midrange is better with the Oritek. Acoustic guitar sounds like a guitar and you can feel the resonance of the sound in the guitar body. This was lost with the Zap Filter. Voices are much more involving and have a better body to them. With the larger soundstage you felt as if they were singing to you, not in you. The highs were a little recessed in comparison but not absent, just not as pronounced. You could enjoy them without having to take your focus off the body of the music. Bass is strong but not overpowering; enjoyable is a good way to put it. The overall presentation felt ‘realistic’ or at least that is how we felt after a couple of hours of going back and forth.

Conclusion? Well, it’s up to you. This is part one of our comparison of these DAC’s. The next time we get together the music will broaden. My impressions after a couple of hours is that the Oritek fits my listening needs better than the Zap Filter Zhaolu. This may sound odd as my SACDmods NS9100ES uses the Zap Filter and I really like the Zap Filter. The DAC does not sound like my Sony though and the Zap Filter imparts its own sound on the Zhaolu. Now if Ori would build a balanced version I would be in heaven. Philip will post his impressions on this tread a little later.

Thanks,

Aaron

 

[yrh0413]

nice review

! I was thinking of getting either the OMZ or Zapped ZL for my K701; if what you said is true (The Zapped ZL has a smaller soundstage) then i guess the OMZ suits me better.

 

[fierce_freak]

Thanks so much for your comparo, Aaron! Sounds like the Oritek is a real winner (if only it were balanced!). I have a Zapfilter on my way to me this week for my Zhaolu, and now I have to live with knowing my Zhaolu's not all it could be ;p

I look forward to your next get together where you broaden your musical choices (and possibly include some good metal of the more extreme variety, if it suits either of you

).

 

[d-cee]

thanks for the excellent review aaron! did your impressions align with cotdt's?

i was blown away by my OMZ compared to the stock, Ori is first class and i dare say a perfectionist but this all works out better for the users =D

with the OMZ i finally understood what "analog-sounding" sounded like, smoother, more resolving and incredible clarity and detail. no more digital "harshness" or "grain" that i never knew I was listening to... basically I am spoilt now and don't think I can go back

as a side, the stock zhaolu also has a higher output level than the OMZ

oh and the new faceplate is DAYUM HAWT! I'd buy an OMZ just for the faceplate (except it says NOS which we thought means New/Nicer Output Stage)

 

[brokensound]

I shall co-sign d-cee. Ori was great help when I was trying to order the Zhaolu and answered all my questions promptedly. I got my OMZ last month and have been enjoying it ever since.

 

[Jon L]

I thought Ori offered either single-ended OR balanced (not both) on the Oritek Zhaolu, no?

You guys most definitely should hear the Oritek Zhaolu through some good speakers. Yowza!

 

[fierce_freak]

I asked him a couple weeks ago if he offered balanced, but he told me he doesn't currently offer it.

 

[lan]

Thanks for the impressions.

It's still rather inconclusive to me at least as "mods" can mean many things and then there's sound tuning part of it. BTW is the zapfiltered version modded in any way besides just the output?

 

[Mazuki]

I have heard this same Zapfiltered unit owned by cotdt. My impressions align completely with johnsonad. There is very little soundstage. It's as if going from a speaker setup to IEMs.

 

[SonicDawg]

It's funny that you guys say the zapfiltered zhaolu has small soundstage, which is the opposite of what I experience... Maybe I need a better frame of reference. One thing I agree, though, that the zap has really great bass

 

[Epicurean]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SonicDawg /img/forum/go_quote.gif It's funny that you guys say the zapfiltered zhaolu has small soundstage, which is the opposite of what I experience... Maybe I need a better frame of reference. One thing I agree, though, that the zap has really great bass

First of all, I have a zapfiltered Zhaolu with the CS4398 chip. But I feel just like SonicDawg. The soundstage with the zapfilter and hd650s is HUUUUUGE! I mean bigger than I've heard to date. It is in no way flat or iem-like. I have the AD1852 chip on the way and now I'm really wondering if it will be worth the trouble exchanging chips at all...

 

[d-cee]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Epicurean /img/forum/go_quote.gif First of all, I have a zapfiltered Zhaolu with the CS4398 chip. But I feel just like SonicDawg. The soundstage with the zapfilter and hd650s is HUUUUUGE! I mean bigger than I've heard to date. It is in no way flat or iem-like. I have the AD1852 chip on the way and now I'm really wondering if it will be worth the trouble exchanging chips at all...

it is worth it just to try it

i got the CS4398 board and even though I have decided it is not for me, for the money it was worth it to me just to put my mind at ease about whether or not i might have liked it better than the AD1852, which in this case I don't.

The beauty of the D2.0 OMZ is that you can swap DAC boards without any re-solder or re-wiring work, just awesome!

 

[yrh0413]

so what's the verdict? Bigger soundstage on the Zapper or Ori?

 

[cotdt]

I was surprised by the big differences of these two Zhaolu 2.5 AD1852 DACs, although some of the things I anticipated based on Ori's description of his discrete output stage. The Ori does not use global feedback and is a very simple, "pure" output stage whereas the Zapfilter strives for technical perfection and includes its own power supply. The Ori is single-ended while the Zapfilter Mk2 is balanced. We used the Zapfilter in single-ended mode and it was still about 6dB louder than the Ori. Yes, we more or less agreed with the differences we heard between these DACs although we have our own explanations for them.

The Ori is in a different world in terms of soundstage, everything is just further out from you and with headphones this should be an advantage with most music. That said, the Zapfilter is in a different world in dynamics, bass, impactfulness, and treble. The Ori is more midrange-oriented kind of like vinyl, except that the Zapfilter has much more weight to the sound though still a little less weighty as compared to vinyl. I didn't think that the midrange of the Zapfilter was recessed, rather the frequency extremes were more apparent making the midrange less emphasized than the Ori. With the jazz that we listened to, I agreed with Aaron that the Ori sounded more natural, as the Zapfilter was too dynamic and hard-hitting whereas the Ori was more laid back which is what I preferred with many of the songs. The Zapfilter had a more in-your-head experience with headphones, which shouldn't be an issue with speakers, but headphones are quirky things and I thought that the Ori's huge soundstage made headphone listening more relaxing. Don't get me wrong, the Zapfilter already has a good soundstage, but the Ori's soundstage is just massive. Out of all the DACs that I have ever heard, the Ori Zhaolu is the king of soundstage. I did not get a chance to try instrumental music with a large recorded soundstage, but I think with these I would prefer the Zapfilter because I suspect the soundstage may be overly large and too far back with the Ori. Another thing is that we were listening to these DACs on tube amps, which in general have a small (though intimate) soundstage. With high-end SS amps, the soundstage would be bigger in favor of the Zapfilter (unless you like a gigantic soundstage), but perhaps the notes would be too hard-hitting and this may not sound as natural. We will do a Round 2 with a balanced Beta22 and throw speakers into the mix.

I think with the Ori, if you boost the lower midrange a bit via EQ, it would sound very much like vinyl. This is the DAC to get for vinyl junkies. The Zapfilter excels in its original goal of technical perfection. Both these DACs are top class and to my ears compete favorably against the $1000 class of DACs such as the Lavry. As for the Benchmark DAC1, to me even the stock Zhaolu 2.5A beats it. These AD1852-based DACs are both incredibly detailed and do not sound congested like the cheaper DACs. The Zapfilter has often been compared to DACs that cost more than cars and matched or beaten them in listening tests, and the Ori holds its own against the Zapfilter, so you can't go wrong either way.

 

[bordins]

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnsonad /img/forum/go_quote.gif The midrange is better with the Oritek. Acoustic guitar sounds like a guitar and you can feel the resonance of the sound in the guitar body. This was lost with the Zap Filter.

My "shocking" impression with OMZ was that I heard enormous details recorded on the CD never experienced before, even in a $$$$$ system. It is all about elimination of noise or contamination in the signal paths of the analog section.

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnsonad /img/forum/go_quote.gif Bass is strong but not overpowering; enjoyable is a good way to put it.

How about details of bass ? Do you hear drum skin moves up and down ? This is very apparent on OMZ's.

Thanks for a nice review, johnsonad.