[DavidJ1973]

Poor quality of CDs in general?  Could you elaborate more on this?  Also, I feel like the interest in vinyl has a lot to do with kids and their fads.  People say it sounds better but listening to some of my dad's records, I have to say CD sounds better to me.

Agreed. The same fad is also driving typewriter sales. Some kids (hipsters?) like to avoid the appearance of "mainstream" so they try to get vintage stuff, and certainly records fall into that category. However, I suspect some of those kids may start out attempting to appear retro and cool but wind up actually experiencing the actual benefits of the analog medium and become a force against the loudness problem. That's my hope anyway.

 

[hogger129]

Quote:

Agreed. The same fad is also driving typewriter sales. Some kids (hipsters?) like to avoid the appearance of "mainstream" so they try to get vintage stuff, and certainly records fall into that category. However, I suspect some of those kids may start out attempting to appear retro and cool but wind up actually experiencing the actual benefits of the analog medium and become a force against the loudness problem. That's my hope anyway.

 
I can certainly agree with anyone who says the mastering on vinyl is better because it often is.  But I find it hard to believe a well mastered vinyl sounds better than a well mastered CD.

 

[Tiemen]

Quote:

 
I can certainly agree with anyone who says the mastering on vinyl is better because it often is.  But I find it hard to believe a well mastered vinyl sounds better than a well mastered CD.

 
Depends highly on the record player I guess. The best of them are insane expensive.
You can't judge the quality of vinyl on a cheap record player, while a relative cheap CD player can already sound quite good.

 

[bigshot]

A well mastered CD will always be better than vinyl because the CD format exceeds vinyl in signal to noise, distortion, wow and flutter, dynamic range, etc.

 

[duncan1]

The Beatles remasters were not good -EMI corp. admitted that and re-released them again sounding more natural . They are not the only ones . This is a big issue in the UK .They couldnt compete with vinyl in natural musical reproduction. Remember this is NOT the sound science thread . So I can put subjective views,  if you dont like it tough! 

 

[bigshot]

All opinions are not created equal. They stand or fall depending on how well they are supported with facts.

 

[duncan1]

And you don't take of the whole of Head-Fi to impress totally objective views on people who want a SUBJECTIVE answer not told a scientific answer . Its as if you are ashamed we are human and not  robots who can easily be controlled. Humans listen subjectively and want subjective answers . If they want a technical answer they can go to sound science. .80% of this World affirm subjectivity  its just those who wont accept that humans speak-sing-listen act -subjectively  that are wrong . No amount of technical ability or scientific invention can -will equal the human organic  brain -that's not my words but an American professor in biology.

 

[bigshot]

Vinyl has a higher noise floor than CDs do. The dynamic range is much narrower. The frequency response is a little narrower and is not as flat. There is much higher distortion, particularly in the inner grooves.

The advantages of vinyl are that a lot of music on LPs has never been released to CD, LPs cost only a dollar or two at thrift stores, and sometimes the mastering is better.

There are advantages and disadvantages. It pays to know the "why" behind things. Then you can make an informed decision. As humans, we are given brains to use them.

 

[duncan1]

So what about the noise floor that isn't music -Music is the joy of of listening to something that lifts your spirit to a higher level . Only humans FEEL music . A spectrum analyzer cant nor a THD dis. Analyzer. wide band scope or a digital analyzer. Only the human ear can. Your putting humans at a lower level than science . When even the best scientist cant give an answer to the origin of man . Darwins theory has been proved to be faulty . It cant explain why there are no INTERMEDIATE species  from the  single cell to  intelligent DNA. -Read  Stephen C Meyers book --the philosophy   of science -Director of science  and culture of the Discovery Institute Seattle.who has a UK Cambridge degree.-Science cant explain how something that was not alive devolved into the first life on earth.We have whats called intelligent DNA it evolves.But who created it. There are now many digital design engineers who agree when comparing it to computer science . That there must be an ORIGINAL designer.IE-GOD or A Higher Intelligence- Crick for one US computer design  engineer.  Science is  seriously flawed  and keeps changing its stance. with new discoveries but at the time they say --This is the truth--but their truth keeps changing.

 

[bigshot]

I'm talking about sound fidelity. Music is music, whether it's on Edison cylinder, 78, LP, tape or digital. Not all of those various formats are equal when it comes to sound fidelity though.

 

[duncan1]

And the title is---Original or Remastered---What?????----Music and the   answer is --original  without all the "added" to improve fidelity digital editions.Even with the increased distortion noise etc. Vinyl  is still more realistic to the human ear. Its not pure tones we want to hear its music with life. Your ideal isn't really music its technology. Mine is music And from that I gain great pleasure. What do you think are the distortion ratios of a band playing in a theater?? A lot higher than any digital converter that's recording it.While at the same time its "processing" it to make it ideal technically. People say the music is great and they shout --more--more--more!  even with the frequency distortion and level of the music going through people and bouncing off the walls. That's real live music.

 

[bigshot]

Remastering can definitely improve quality. I remember back in the day when I was working in 24 track analogue, we constantly had to be aware of bouncedowns and generation loss. Each layer added a layer of opaqueness to the sound and raised the noise floor. With digital, you can stack up as many layers as you want and it stays totally clear and totally clean. By going back into the mix and replacing analogue bouncedowns with digital channels you can clean up sound considerably. Filtration is a LOT more sophisticated and effective than it was in the old days too. Digital is a lot more precise in its edits as well. It is possible with good judgement to vastly improve the sound of a legacy recording. The remasterings Sony has been doing on the RCA, Decca and Columbia classical libraries lately are phenomenal. MUCH better than even the most cherished six eye or shaded dog vinyl pressing.

 

[duncan1]

I fully accept that modern technology  can "clean up"  analog music. But that was the big argument in the UK. Its like that old advert --"is it real or is it Sony" most here preferred real. And can certainly make a big difference to old  78s. I have not heard the latest remastering as you say from Sony etc -but I will try and obtain some to see if they present a natural presentation. Most Cd's of good quality in Europe come from Germany-- Deutsche--Grammophon[exact German]  They have been in business more than 50years. and produced very high quality Classical music of which I have many LPs and Cd's. Latterly Linn-of sondek--produced quality Cd's along with Naim and some others. I don't dispute for a moment that science has its place  only that some of your friends in sound science  are inclined to answer any subjective question with an objective answer.Never thinking how it leaves the enquirers state of mind. And refuse to accept that humans cant be equated to machines. And come out with sneering criticism  about it . One even said people should "conform " to the World[scientific aspect]   when it    is  the other way around. Humans have the World in their hands to build or destroy . The World isn't a "god" Its there for us to use as a platform for our lives.. We control the world . Look at all the wars where is the world stopping humans destroying each other.?? Doesn't exist  till we nuke the whole lot and are left with radiation. Now THATS science.

 

[hogger129]

Quote:

I fully accept that modern technology  can "clean up"  analog music. But that was the big argument in the UK. Its like that old advert --"is it real or is it Sony" most here preferred real. And can certainly make a big difference to old  78s. I have not heard the latest remastering as you say from Sony etc -but I will try and obtain some to see if they present a natural presentation. Most Cd's of good quality in Europe come from Germany-- Deutsche--Grammophon[exact German]  They have been in business more than 50years. and produced very high quality Classical music of which I have many LPs and Cd's. Latterly Linn-of sondek--produced quality Cd's along with Naim and some others. I don't dispute for a moment that science has its place  only that some of your friends in sound science  are inclined to answer any subjective question with an objective answer.Never thinking how it leaves the enquirers state of mind. And refuse to accept that humans cant be equated to machines. And come out with sneering criticism  about it . One even said people should "conform " to the World[scientific aspect]   when it    is  the other way around. Humans have the World in their hands to build or destroy . The World isn't a "god" Its there for us to use as a platform for our lives.. We control the world . Look at all the wars where is the world stopping humans destroying each other.?? Doesn't exist  till we nuke the whole lot and are left with radiation. Now THATS science.

 
 
What does this have to do with original vs remastered?  You're just arguing over and over again trying to justify your choice for vinyl.  Fact is, CD is a perfectly capable medium, and original CD sounds better than remastered CD because it isn't compressed and over-loudened.

 

[duncan1]

I am arguing "over and over again" only because some people don't think they are human. Humans listen subjectively and answer subjectively  those that don't aren't rational in the human sense of the word. I am not arguing over vinyl this is only the second time I have mentioned vinyl.I have a  large collection of CDs Look at my other posts where do I keep harping on a bout vinyl?????. People in  sound science "kick up a fuss" if any body mentions subjectivity . and tell them to go elsewhere and when I answer a poster who puts a subjective question not on sound science with a subjective answer I get people from sound science criticizing that . As far as I am concerned TH ATS NOT ON!!!! I wont accept that never.will You don't want me to comment subjectively full stop . Never going to happen , Not this side of the year 3000 . They tried to do that in another country in the 1930s and we went to war for FREEDOM of Speech. So if I am not allowed to post elsewhere subjectively  then why should sound science "bully boys" expect me not to post subjectively on sound science?????. Did you READ my posts I don't think you did you just jumped in to carry on an argument READ MY FIRST POST !! The Beatles CDs that were remastered by EMI were terrible . I said they ADMITTED that and REMASTERED them again . I did not say that --in YOUR words The OPPOSITE of that.