[Nightfall]

any good case that you like, Coolermasters are great but pricey, chekc out the Kingwin with the three windows, good buy

Antec True 430w power supply

the new Asus P4G800 Springdale motherboard

Intel Pentium 4 2.4C 800fsb processor

2x256mb Kingston Hyperex DDR memory

2x Western Digital 80gb Special Edition hard drives w/8mb cache

ATI Radeon 9700 Pro 128mb video card

Soundblaster Audigy 2 soundcard

Sony DVD+/-RW Recorder Drive Model DW-U10A-10

nothing will outperform this, especially for the price

buy everything from Newegg.com

 

[wallijonn]

Office Max has the WD 120GB (2MB Cache) for $59.99 after rebates ($20 instant, $50 WD, $30 OffMax rebate).

Circuit City has the WD 120GB (8 MB Cache) for $79.99 after rebates. ($80 WD, $20 CC mail in rebates)

these still have the 3 year warranty (80 pin ide).

all the newer serial ATA drives come with 1 year warranties.

btw, OffMax has 100 jewel cases for free. ($19.99 - 11.99 instant & $8 mail in).

 

[lan]

What are you going to be using this computer for?

If not hardcore gaming, then no need for Radeon 9700 Pro or Audigy 2.

I'd get one of the new P4 i865 mobos with all the goodies built in and 800FSB P4s w/ hyperthreading if I were buying now.

I'd get the WD 8MB drives for space and for 3 year warrenty or a Barracuda V for quietest harddrive. If you do go i865, you could get the WD Raptor SATA 10K drive instead of SCSI. But if you must have the ultimate in speed, the Fujitsu MAS3735 is the fastest drive.

 

[RoninDiesel]

i don't think those shuttle cases are water cooled. they use a weird spread plate that connects to some pipes that leads the heat outward...almost fanless i think.

gloco,
if you want burning options, i think pioneer is coming out with a dvd burner that supports all the new dvd formats, probably for mucho dinero. imo just stick w/a name brand like sony or hp when it comes to dvd-burners.

p.s. i second vote the shuttle case.
k.i.s.s.

 

[Geek]

NewEgg is an excellent source. That and Googlegear (www.googlegear.com). I have ordered thousands of dollars of computer parts from both sites.

Delivery is fast, both sites have excellent free shipping deals, prices are incredible, etc.

You can find a 120GB WD 8MB Cache for $120.00 on newegg. No rebates or anything, just straight cash. Free shipping. 3 Year MFR warranty.

Here are my tips:

You must purchase an Intel system for optimum performance and safety results relative to price. Let me explain in detail:

1. Intel processors have a heat spreader placed between the CPU core and the heatsink. It protects the sensitive core from any mistakes made during heatsink installation and greatly helps dissapate heat. As a result, Intel processors run up to ten degrees celsius cooler than similar AMD processors. The chance or cracking a core with an Intel is zero. With AMD you have a more serious risk.

2. Intel processors, while having inefficient internal architecture, have double the cache of AMD processors and double the north-bridge memory bandwidth (literally, double).

The advantage of this is quite obvious. With, say, an AMD 3200+, the 400mhz FSB it provides will have a memory bandwidth of 3.2 Gigabits per second maximum. Intel's competing setup of a 3.0GHz at 800mhz FSB has a northbridge with a whopping 6.4 Gigabits per second maximum bandwidth!

The northbridge and small cache size are conclusively what is holding AMD back on nearly every competitive benchmark. I'd go Intel until they realize their mistakes ;P

That's all I have to really rant about regarding comps. Other than that, good luck choosing your computer, and remember that a brand spanking new corporate dell computer will get outperformed by a two year old professionally-built computer designed specifically with the end user in mind, assuming the home-built one is tweaked.

Good luck and have fun.

Cheers,
Geek

 

[Geek]

Oh, and I HIGHLY RECOMMEND AGAINST BUYING A COMPACT CASE SUCH AS THE SHUTTLE.

DON'T DO IT!

DON'T DO IT!

Why?

1. You will have room for ONE optical drive. If you want to buy a backup drive, or a second drive for master-copy burning, or a fan controller, or a control panel, etc etc, you won't be able to do it unless you make the upgrade the only drive.

This is a huge regret you will have, trust me on this.

2. Huge overheating problems shall be created.

This is bad.

3. You won't be able to buy a full-sized chipset which hampers your ability to take full advantage of the processor you buy and will only jack up costs even more if you want greater performance.

4. Good luck getting a top notch video card in that thing. The FX and 9800 / 256MB are bloody huge cards.

5. Kiss mods goodbye. No fan mods unless you get a trueblue PSU or etch into the case ;D

 

[Geek]

Now that I have ranted so heavily let me post some constructive ideas:

PRICE RANGE: $1,500
PURPOSE: Music listening/burning, performance-intensive apps, and general entertainment.

1. Chieftec / chenming case.
Make it a server-size so you can buy this insane chipset that I will talk about later. ~$60-$120 or so depending on options.
-4 Optical (CDROM-type) drive bays
-Room for 4-6 HDDS and 2 floppies
-Holds a server chipset which means blazingly fast speed
-Easy to work with, very innovative designs (side of case pops off in seconds, rounded edges, drives pop out easily, etc)

2. 431w Power Supply or greater.
Go all-out in case you ever decide to turn it into a server. Plus it aint that bad; $100 or so for a good enermax PSU with a fan controller.

3. Intel 875P Chipset.
Buy the intel version (other manufacturers also make this chipset). Blazingly fast. Comes with JEDEC standards built-in (thank God) for DDR. Runs up to 4GB of DDR400 at spec! Amazing board. Also has serial ATA, support for 800mhz FSB or 533mhz FSB. This is good stuff. $180.

4. Intel 800mhz FSB at 2.8 GHz.
You'll notice I listed the FSB rating before the GHz. . . it's that monumental a number. Processor clock is now second compared to the other features a processor has. This processor has received rave reviews from gaming sites and is at an incredible price. $300 with FREE SHIPPING at NEWEGG. This is a highly recommended component.

5. Western Digital 120GB 8MB Cache 7200RPM ATA/100. This speaks for itself. $120.55 at newegg.

6. ROUNDED ATA/133 cables. Your choice of colors, flavors, etc. Get the 36" ones if you get a big server tower, otherwise the 24" ones. You'll need one ATA cable for every two optical devices or hard drives. www.case-mod.com. Like $5.00 per cable.

7. Corsair TWINX1024-3200LLPT 1GB DDR400 XMS3200. www.googlgear.com. $280.00. You're getting a gigabyte of RAM in two sticks of 512MB. This stuff is designed around a dual channel chipset and will perform optimally. Designed to run natively at the DDR400 spec of the chipset I recommended.

8. Geforce4 Ti4800SE with Video/DVI by MSI. I find the Ti series, while slightly outdated, to be very solid performers and are EXTREMELY stable. They come with no weird software and the MSI versions can be overclocked very easily without coolbits or tweaks. Cost is very low. You're getting 80% of the performance of a top notch card which will run you much more cash. $160.00.

We use the theme of synergy when designing our headphone systems. I find it applies to everything in real life, especially computers. Why not make a system in which all the barriers to true performance have been broken? my suggestions total $1,250 or so.

That leaves you $250.00 for any sort of DVD/CD combo drive you need plus a really nice PCI sound card.

Computers are quite an obsession. Not comparable to the audio obsession, however....

Cheers,
Geek

 

[lini]

I'd also advise against a Shuttle X barebone, but less due to the reasons Geek mentioned: I haven't heard the latest incarnations, but the fan of the power supply seemed rather loud on the models we had in the lab... And I'd also recommend to check the Plextor burner thoroughly before purchase - as far as I remember it's only an OEM (I think it's actually a NEC). For the hard drives, I'd recommend to look into Samsung 5400 rpm models with large capacity (>= 120 GB) - these tend to run cooler and quieter than the competition at the moment, while still being plenty fast. For the graphics card, one of the new passive cooled GF5200FX models might be a good idea - especially since my friend Mike told me about his disappointing experiences with his recent ATI card: All their recent XP drivers seem to hang occasionally during DVD playback, he says. For the case, it's actually a matter of preference - personally I like several AOpen models, as they are comparatively cheap, come in good quality and have a no-nonsense design.

Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini

 

[SumB]

Quote:

Originally posted by Geek Now that I have ranted so heavily let me post some constructive ideas: 8. Geforce4 Ti4800SE with Video/DVI by MSI. I find the Ti series, while slightly outdated, to be very solid performers and are EXTREMELY stable. They come with no weird software and the MSI versions can be overclocked very easily without coolbits or tweaks. Cost is very low. You're getting 80% of the performance of a top notch card which will run you much more cash. $160.00.

Don't fall into the trap of Nvidia's deceptive naming scheme. The Ti4800 is merely a rebadged Ti4400 with AGP 8X compatability. Big whoop, the card is trounced by the Radeon 9500 Pro, has vastly inferior 2d and 3d image quality, dismal DVD playback, and isn't ready for upcoming games with its obsolete pixel and vertex shader implementations.

80% - not even close. Not even to the mid-end competition.

 

[elnero]

I'm rather partial to the Alienware stuff myself.

 

[SumB]

Quote:

Originally posted by Geek 1. Intel processors have a heat spreader placed between the CPU core and the heatsink. It protects the sensitive core from any mistakes made during heatsink installation and greatly helps dissapate heat. As a result, Intel processors run up to ten degrees celsius cooler than similar AMD processors. The chance or cracking a core with an Intel is zero. With AMD you have a more serious risk.

How can he crack the core if he's purchasing the pre-built PC? And the temperature thing never comes into play unless you're an overclocker shooting for bragging rights.

Quote:

2. Intel processors, while having inefficient internal architecture, have double the cache of AMD processors and double the north-bridge memory bandwidth (literally, double).

P4C and Barton processors have the same quantity of L2 cache, and AMD has 8x the amount of L1 BTW (8-64kb). Even the earlier TBred had 3/4 the L2, or 384kb.

Quote:

The advantage of this is quite obvious. With, say, an AMD 3200+, the 400mhz FSB it provides will have a memory bandwidth of 3.2 Gigabits per second maximum. Intel's competing setup of a 3.0GHz at 800mhz FSB has a northbridge with a whopping 6.4 Gigabits per second maximum bandwidth!

The extra memory bandwidth looks nice running synthetic Sandra benchmarks, but in real world apps the Barton still holds a commanding lead over the P4 clock for clock.

Quote:

The northbridge and small cache size are conclusively what is holding AMD back on nearly every competitive benchmark. I'd go Intel until they realize their mistakes ;P

You make my job easy when you debunk yourself.

 

[PeterG]

You don't need a gig of ram and I would not go with nvidia right now. Stick with a raedon 9700, it outperforms the TI series by a LARGE margin. All the crap Geek said about AMD is exactly that, crap. Athlon XPs do better in real world application and as long as you're not an idiot, there's no real risk of cracking the core. I would advise against such a small case.

 

[gloco]

Hey Guys, thanks for all the advice so far. I plan on going with a full sized case, so i'll definitely stick to one with a good psu. I plan on using this new pc for everyday tasks, such as writing papers, gaming (including emulators), burning tons of cds, watching movies, etc etc etc.

I definitely would like to stick with a Plextor burner as i currently have one going on for five years and still works perfectly, as well as the SCSI cd rom i use by Plextor.

As for HD's, i'm currently using a WD 120G 8MB cache HD, no problems so far, i'll probably get three of them with the new machine. As for RAM, i suppose 512MB will be enough for me. As for the video card, i'm definitely going with an ATI card, probably a radeon 9700 or higher. I'll go thru your recommendations and research them up, as long as everything is compatible i can't complain

By the way, i wasn't aware that you could use DDR memory in a Intel-based board, goes to show how clueless i am

 

[Nightfall]

Some good points, Geek, but also a couple that could be improved on. First of all, the Intel I875P chipset is the Canterwood. Its essentially equalled in performance by the Springdale I865 (which is basically the same chipset, in fact) for much less money. The only differences between the two (other than the fact that a good Canterwood motherboard costs $200.00 plus, versus $120-140.00 for the Springdale) is the fact that Canterwood provides ECC memory compatiablilty, which is useless for anything except servers, and PAT which has proved to be virtually worthless in any meaningful speed increase. If you follow the serious hardware forums on the net, you will have seen that they universally advise people to skip Canterwood and buy Springdale.
Also, I would not advise purchasing a motherboard made by Intel, I would instead advocate purchasing the Asus that I named, or perhaps the Abit, of those already released. The Intel made board is quite limited in features, and cannot be overclocked. No one might be thinking about overclocking right now, but later on, it can extend the performance life of pc immensely. I cant see why anyone would want to completely limit themself from this option.
I would strongly recommend against purchasing an Nvidia card, as you suggested, at this point in time. The ATI Radeons blow them away in 3d apps, as well as gaming and in image quality. The 9700 Pro is a steal for about $250.00, or, if gaming isnt of any importance, the 9500 Pro can be purchased currently for $172.00 and would be great.
I had recommended the P4 2.4C 800FSB processor based upon it being the best overall performance value, if they can afford to fit the 2.8 into the budget, thats certainly even better.
Lastly, though I am a huge fan of Corsair memory, it has proven have serious incompatiabilities with the Canterwood and Springdale chipsets. Currently, Corsair and Intel are each blaming the other, but I certainly wouldnt get myself in the middle of this. The Kingston Hyperex which is a very good alternative to Corsair works perfectly with these motherboards, as does Mushkin though thats pricier.


JC



Quote:

Originally posted by Geek Now that I have ranted so heavily let me post some constructive ideas: PRICE RANGE: $1,500 PURPOSE: Music listening/burning, performance-intensive apps, and general entertainment. 1. Chieftec / chenming case. Make it a server-size so you can buy this insane chipset that I will talk about later. ~$60-$120 or so depending on options. -4 Optical (CDROM-type) drive bays -Room for 4-6 HDDS and 2 floppies -Holds a server chipset which means blazingly fast speed -Easy to work with, very innovative designs (side of case pops off in seconds, rounded edges, drives pop out easily, etc) 2. 431w Power Supply or greater. Go all-out in case you ever decide to turn it into a server. Plus it aint that bad; $100 or so for a good enermax PSU with a fan controller. 3. Intel 875P Chipset. Buy the intel version (other manufacturers also make this chipset). Blazingly fast. Comes with JEDEC standards built-in (thank God) for DDR. Runs up to 4GB of DDR400 at spec! Amazing board. Also has serial ATA, support for 800mhz FSB or 533mhz FSB. This is good stuff. $180. 4. Intel 800mhz FSB at 2.8 GHz. You'll notice I listed the FSB rating before the GHz. . . it's that monumental a number. Processor clock is now second compared to the other features a processor has. This processor has received rave reviews from gaming sites and is at an incredible price. $300 with FREE SHIPPING at NEWEGG. This is a highly recommended component. 5. Western Digital 120GB 8MB Cache 7200RPM ATA/100. This speaks for itself. $120.55 at newegg. 6. ROUNDED ATA/133 cables. Your choice of colors, flavors, etc. Get the 36" ones if you get a big server tower, otherwise the 24" ones. You'll need one ATA cable for every two optical devices or hard drives. www.case-mod.com. Like $5.00 per cable. 7. Corsair TWINX1024-3200LLPT 1GB DDR400 XMS3200. www.googlgear.com. $280.00. You're getting a gigabyte of RAM in two sticks of 512MB. This stuff is designed around a dual channel chipset and will perform optimally. Designed to run natively at the DDR400 spec of the chipset I recommended. 8. Geforce4 Ti4800SE with Video/DVI by MSI. I find the Ti series, while slightly outdated, to be very solid performers and are EXTREMELY stable. They come with no weird software and the MSI versions can be overclocked very easily without coolbits or tweaks. Cost is very low. You're getting 80% of the performance of a top notch card which will run you much more cash. $160.00. We use the theme of synergy when designing our headphone systems. I find it applies to everything in real life, especially computers. Why not make a system in which all the barriers to true performance have been broken? my suggestions total $1,250 or so. That leaves you $250.00 for any sort of DVD/CD combo drive you need plus a really nice PCI sound card. Computers are quite an obsession. Not comparable to the audio obsession, however.... Cheers, Geek

 

[SumB]

Quote:

Originally posted by Nightfall First of all, the Intel I875P chipset is the Canterwood. Its essentially equalled in performance by the Springdale I865 (which is basically the same chipset, in fact) for much less money. The only differences between the two (other than the fact that a good Canterwood motherboard costs $200.00 plus, versus $120-140.00 for the Springdale) is the fact that Canterwood provides ECC memory compatiablilty, which is useless for anything except servers, and PAT which has proved to be virtually worthless in any meaningful speed increase.

Actually it looks like PAT plays a big role in the Canterwood's performance, as the Springdale trails behind in [H]ardOCP's D865PERL review. It's pretty safe to say the latter is no enthusiasts chipset.