[Hookem]

After much input from you guys here at Head-Fi, I am reconsidering what I originally thought would be an excellent computer as source audio setup.

My original idea was that a Audiotrak Prodigy HD2 paired with the Audioengine 5 speakers would be a great bang for the buck deal...Thought it would be a great setup with a sub 500 dollar budget...Comes out to right at 430.00 dollars shipping included.

Well a whole new world has been opened up to me from hanging around here bugging you guys and this would seem to be a much better setup that is also within my budget.

Sonic Impact Technologies - Sonic Tio Board

AUDIOTRAK - Prodigy HD2

Infinity - Home Audio

Please take a look at this review of the Audioengine...Towards the bottom of the page they describe the amplifier section of the 5's and it seems like a high quality setup with coil, output transistor and all that business.

Just wondering how the Sonic Tio can hang with a conventional type amplifier.

Audioengine A5 Build Quality — Audioholics Home Theater Reviews and News

Any feedback or links to help me better understand how the Sonic Tio can hang with a conventional amp would be greatly apprecaited.

 

[Operandi]

Nice find on that review.

Yeah, that looks like a really nice amp and crossover. I can't comment on it's design but from a build perspective it looks great. Big juicy transformers, air coil inductors and film capacitors are not cheap.

I don't think the Sonic Impact compares to favorably. The T-amps from Trends and Firestone are much better but their price reflects that.

 

[CyberTheo]

Amp on a card sounds innovative. This is the first time I see this kind of product. I agree with Operandi that a T-Amp in a separate box should be better sounding and more flexible. A separate box will eliminate noise from the guts of your computer, and has its own PS with potential sonic benefits. For flexibility, you can hook up the amp to another computer or hi-fi system.

Check out T-Amp and other budget products here.

 

[Hookem]

I like the idea of the Sonic TIO/Audiotrak/Infinity sounding better than the Audiotrak/Audioengine.

Just hard for me to swallow.

And the real problem with other T-Amps is they do not fit within my budget restraints.

Sounds like the Audiotrak Prodigy HD2 paired with the Audioengine 5's are going to be about as good as I am going to get in my price range.

 

[Operandi]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hookem /img/forum/go_quote.gif I like the idea of the Sonic TIO/Audiotrak/Infinity sounding better than the Audiotrak/Audioengine. Just hard for me to swallow. And the real problem with other T-Amps is they do not fit within my budget restraints. Sounds like the Audiotrak Prodigy HD2 paired with the Audioengine 5's are going to be about as good as I am going to get in my price range.

I thought you were looking at one of more traditional external SI T-amps. That PCI T-amp card looks like a bad idea, I wouldn't recommend it.

The Prodigy looks like a nice card but for a bit more you can get a USB based Firestone Fubar II DAC which should easily have a SQ edge.

 

[Hookem]

I had a Chaintech AV710...Took it out of my computer thinking I could get another one...And sold it in one of my loaner box's...Bad move...Left me scramblin for a new sound card which aint a bad thing...Would have never found the Audiotrak Prodigy HD2.

Then put a old Creative Audigy ZS card in it...Sounded way better driving Audioengine 2's than the onboard sound (Abit AN-M2 HD) that has the Realtek ALC888 chip.

Now people claim that the Realtek ALC888 sounds good...But I will have to disagree...Really crappy sounding with the Audioengine 2's for sure.

So for me to run a external DAC I would still have the Realtek ALC888 feeding the DAC...And I cannot live with that...I played with it for days and it is not a good thing.

I did the Derik's Boot and Nuke formatting routine after reading review after review of how good the ALC888 is...Even with a clean install of XP, correct order driver install and updates it still sounded crappy.

 

[CyberTheo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hookem /img/forum/go_quote.gif I like the idea of the Sonic TIO/Audiotrak/Infinity sounding better than the Audiotrak/Audioengine. Just hard for me to swallow. And the real problem with other T-Amps is they do not fit within my budget restraints. Sounds like the Audiotrak Prodigy HD2 paired with the Audioengine 5's are going to be about as good as I am going to get in my price range.

I know what you mean. Let me play devil here.

Excuse me!

This is the problem about upgrade options. You now have a good idea how each combo sounds like. The better sounding combo is probably $100 more but you may be stretching your budget there. Think of it this way. If you'd settled for the cheaper option, lived with it for a while, and the upgrade bug hits again (believe me, it will). What would you do? You knew for $100 more today you could've gotten something better. To get to the better sound option then, you will have to sell the Audioengine 5 and spend for an T-Amp and Infinity speakers. That would cost you a lot more than $100 now; may be a lot more depending on how much you can sell the used equipments for. Have fun!

 

[Hookem]

Am I missing something here ??? With a DAC/T-Amp does your computer have to have a soundcard or onboard sound to work ??? If not then other than non connectivity to other sources what more could you ask for ???

"I know what you mean. Let me play devil here. Excuse me!"

By all means be the devil's advocate...I hate buyers remorse.

Here is a USB DAC/T-Amp that a member here commented on.

6moons audio reviews: KingRex T20U & Pre-Amp

The KingRex with the Infinity Primus P162's fall firmly into my budget.

 

[Operandi]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hookem /img/forum/go_quote.gif So for me to run a external DAC I would still have the Realtek ALC888 feeding the DAC...And I cannot live with that...I played with it for days and it is not a good thing.

An external DAC bypasses your soundcard, thats kinda the whole point. If the DAC uses S/PDIF than it's using the digital out from your onboard sound to interface with the DAC but thats just digital 1's and 0's so the only concern is jitter which is pretty minimal. If it's using USB like the Fubar II I mentioned than you are using no component of your onboard sound.

Also the quality of onboard sound can vary quite a bit between motherboards even if they use the same chip. It all depends on how much time and resources the engineers put into the audio section of the board.

 

[CyberTheo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hookem /img/forum/go_quote.gif Am I missing something here ??? With a DAC/T-Amp does your computer have to have a soundcard or onboard sound to work ??? If not then other than non connectivity to other sources what more could you ask for ??? "I know what you mean. Let me play devil here. Excuse me!" By all means be the devil's advocate...I hate buyers remorse. Here is a USB DAC/T-Amp that a member here commented on. 6moons audio reviews: KingRex T20U & Pre-Amp The KingRex with the Infinity Primus P162's fall firmly into my budget.

Nice option! I vote for the KingRex T20U. KingRex has a good reputation. Even better is that, with a T20U, it is like you have an external sound card built-in. No extra sound card required. Connection becomes very simple; all you need is a USB cable and a pair of speaker wires - no interconnects to complicate things. As you know, in an audiophile setup, simple is usually best; and this combo does that. One thing to consider though; the T20U has no aux output. If you listen through a headphone (of course you will, this is Head-Fi forum), you will need a way to hook up a headphone amp.

 

[Hookem]

"One thing to consider though; the T20U has no aux output. If you listen through a headphone (of course you will, this is Head-Fi forum), you will need a way to hook up a headphone amp."

LOL...And the schooling continues...Is there a somthing like the KingRex that not only will power bookshelf speakers and has a headphone amp ???

I do not own a pair of headphones...But that is next on my audio to buy list.

Thanks for the help guys...I like learning new stuff for sure...Add in making informed buying decisions that give you the best bang for your buck and it puts a smile on my face.

Thanks again !!!!!

 

[CyberTheo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hookem /img/forum/go_quote.gif "One thing to consider though; the T20U has no aux output. If you listen through a headphone (of course you will, this is Head-Fi forum), you will need a way to hook up a headphone amp." LOL...And the schooling continues...Is there a somthing like the KingRex that not only will power bookshelf speakers and has a headphone amp ??? I do not own a pair of headphones...But that is next on my audio to buy list. Thanks for the help guys...I like learning new stuff for sure...Add in making informed buying decisions that give you the best bang for your buck and it puts a smile on my face. Thanks again !!!!!

Hm, I don't know of a USB DAC+Amp w/headphone in this price range. Maybe someone else has ideas.

If you believe you will continue in this hobby in the longer run, you may have to choose the route of starting out on a slower pace. From my experience, once you got deeper down the audiophile journey, future upgrades are inevitable, so it would be best try to stick to separate components as much as possible. You can also freeze your system any time you want.

My 2 cents ...

1. Buy the best sound card you can afford. Make sure it has optical output and unamplified line output - they open upgrade paths while serve basic functions. USB sound card is preferable to PCI version for flexibility and noise isolation reasons. When time comes to upgrade, don't buy another sound card, instead buy a dedicated DAC with built-in preamp (Zhaolu 2.5 is a good budget example); feed the optical output from your sound card and other digital sources.

2. Get a good pair of passive speakers, a pair that has no built-in amplification. Why choose one with no built-in amp? Reasons are isolation, simplicity, and flexible and cheaper upgrade paths. Later, you can upgrade the sound by hooking it up to a better amp, or upgrade the speakers and keep your amp.

3. Buy a good quality amp with at least enough power to drive your current pair of speakers (one that has a headphone jack would be a bonus). Initially you can hook your sound card's unamplified line out to it. Later, you can hook up a dedicated DAC or a preamp between the sound card and amp.

Think flexibility and upgradability. Keep in mind, when comes to hi-fi components, "simple is best".

 

[Operandi]

Quote:

Originally Posted by CyberTheo /img/forum/go_quote.gif 1. Buy the best sound card you can afford. Make sure it has optical output and unamplified line output - they open upgrade paths while serve basic functions. USB sound card is preferable to PCI version for flexibility and noise isolation reasons. When time comes to upgrade, don't buy another sound card, instead buy a dedicated DAC with built-in preamp (Zhaolu 2.5 is a good budget example); feed the optical output from your sound card and other digital sources.

Why bother with a soundcard? Just get a good USB DAC and be done with it and put more money in the amp and speakers.

 

[CyberTheo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Operandi /img/forum/go_quote.gif Why bother with a soundcard? Just get a good USB DAC and be done with it and put more money in the amp and speakers.

USB sound card = USB DAC, no? This is just terminology, as I see it. I agree with you in that case.

 

[Operandi]

Quote:

Originally Posted by CyberTheo /img/forum/go_quote.gif USB sound card = USB DAC, no? This is just terminology, as I see it. I agree with you in that case.

All soundcards have a DAC, so strictly speaking thats not wrong but I wouldn't say they are the same thing.

A soundcard usually has multiple inputs and outputs, they also usually have some sort of processing on board. A DAC on the other hand is only concered with the conversion of (usually) two channel digital signal to analog to analog output.