[FireDragon76]

My impression is that open-back headphones just aren't as good a value for the money as closed-back headphones? Does that play out in your experience, as well?

I have used mostly inexpensive headphones over the years (less than 100 dollars), but I've also listened to some more expensive ones (like $300 dollar planarmagnetic headphones). The open-back headphones have a little better soundstage but otherwise the sound is no better. And they seem to cost more for the quality of the sound, vs. closed headphones.

The only exception seems to be some Sony MDR-210 LP's I have. They cost me $14 dollars back in 1995, and are on-ear, semi-open headphones. The soundstage is good, and for the price, they were a great value . But most of these types of headphones are just not very good value.

What are your impressions?

 

[bagwell359]

My impression is that open-back headphones just aren't as good a value for the money as closed-back headphones? Does that play out in your experience, as well?

I have used mostly inexpensive headphones over the years (less than 100 dollars), but I've also listened to some more expensive ones (like $300 dollar planarmagnetic headphones). The open-back headphones have a little better soundstage but otherwise the sound is no better. And they seem to cost more for the quality of the sound, vs. closed headphones.

The only exception seems to be some Sony MDR-210 LP's I have. They cost me $14 dollars back in 1995, and are on-ear, semi-open headphones. The soundstage is good, and for the price, they were a great value . But most of these types of headphones are just not very good value.

What are your impressions?

I find the exact opposite. I can only name one closed headphone that has a soundstage that sounds appropriate -that's the MrSpeakers Ether closed 1.1 (about $900 used). Looking back to my first headphone (AKG 240) from 1981 thru my short Stax period from around '03, to my headphone explosion since late '15, they have all been semi or totally open, and I compared them to closed models of the day, and it keeps coming up - open. My experience with speakers goes back earlier and a lot deeper - pretty much tended toward large soundstages then too. I mean what good is an 80 piece coming out of mini monitors? Very little. Well that's what closed cans sound like to me.

 

[sikki-six]

Generally you need to pay more for good SQ with closed models, imo. Closed headphones tend to have more bass though, which might make them sound "better" for some. Anyhoo, it's much easier to design a good sounding hp, when sound is let through the back, without dealing with the closed cup reflections.

 

[SonyFan121]

I've always preferred closed-back headphones not just for sound quality but also practical reasons. It could be said that closed-back headphones are better, period. Because the drivers in a closed-back headphone are enclosed, less detail and bass escapes, resulting in a fuller sound. It does present problems though such as resonance issues, but if the housing of a closed-back headphone is well designed and dampened properly, it shouldn't be a problem. The 4 closed-back headphones i've owned that to me, sounded more open than closed, where the Denon AH-D5000, Beyerdynamic T70 250 Ohm, Astel & Kern T5P and the one I currently have, the Sony MDR7510. Put it this way; those 4 headphones all have a much wider/bigger soundstage than Sennheiser HD600, which is an open-back headphone.

 

[bagwell359]

I've always preferred closed-back headphones not just for sound quality but also practical reasons. It could be said that closed-back headphones are better, period. Because the drivers in a closed-back headphone are enclosed, less detail and bass escapes, resulting in a fuller sound. It does present problems though such as resonance issues, but if the housing of a closed-back headphone is well designed and dampened properly, it shouldn't be a problem. The 4 closed-back headphones i've owned that to me, sounded more open than closed, where the Denon AH-D5000, Beyerdynamic T70 250 Ohm, Astel & Kern T5P and the one I currently have, the Sony MDR7510. Put it this way; those 4 headphones all have a much wider/bigger soundstage than Sennheiser HD600, which is an open-back headphone.

Can't agree with the "less detail" and "bass" escapes. Closed headphones have tremendous issues with resonances and reverberations and cancellations. "Designed properly" and "shouldn't be a problem" - yet it is in the majority of the cases I have heard.

The Senn HD-600 is known for having a small soundstages - bogus comparison IMO. Try HFM HE-500 and HEX V2 instead.

 

[bagwell359]

Generally you need to pay more for good SQ with closed models, imo. Closed headphones tend to have more bass though, which might make them sound "better" for some. Anyhoo, it's much easier to design a good sounding hp, when sound is let through the back, without dealing with the closed cup reflections.

Right. The HE-500 and HE-6 get better sounding when you take off the rear screens or go with a mesh that is about 95% open.

 

[zazex]

Generally you need to pay more for good SQ with closed models, imo. Closed headphones tend to have more bass though, which might make them sound "better" for some. Anyhoo, it's much easier to design a good sounding hp, when sound is let through the back, without dealing with the closed cup reflections.

Yes.
And those reflections, standing waves, and related distortions will impact the SQ as they must.
A relatively recent trend has the designers of "closed" headphones attempting to have their
cake and eating it too by placing vents in their closed headphones.
I first noticed this about 5 years ago in my Sony MDR 7510 and 7520.
Moving up to today, Sony's Z7MII has a couple of large vents on the
bottoms of the earcups. So I guess they liked that idea.

The AT MSR7's also have venting around the earcups. I've read here and there
that perhaps they should not even be called "closed" headphones since they have
so many openings.

I personally think it's a good thing because I'm just not a fan of closed headphones,
and I've heard a wide variety of them over several years. They are justified and necessary
in certain environments and certain situations. Otherwise, that closed-in sound is one
I simply don't enjoy as much as the sound of (good) open headphones.

 

[SilverEars]

Reverb from the closed-back can cause issues, particularly at certain frequencies. Let's take Beata Studio 3 for example. It has a rise in warmth at about 400hz, and this warmth will mask the mids with certain tracks.

Focal uses defusers or Sennheiser uses a chamber to break up the reverb waves, but you will always have that sense sound is enclosed. I don't think any of them achieves that airy open sound. I find closed to have a dulling effect of peaks in the sound as well. The sound releasing freely in decay creates this open airiness sound, and create a clarity that a lot of closed-backs suffer.

If you look at closed-back frequency responses, you can see the FR have certain similarities how it was tuned in recessing certain portions, probably to dampen certain significant reverberations at particular frequencies.

 

[bagwell359]

Reverb from the closed-back can cause issues, particularly at certain frequencies. Let's take Beata Studio 3 for example. It has a rise in warmth at about 400hz, and this warmth will mask the mids with certain tracks.

Focal uses defusers or Sennheiser uses a chamber to break up the reverb waves, but you will always have that sense sound is enclosed. I don't think any of them achieves that airy open sound. I find closed to have a dulling effect of peaks in the sound as well. The sound releasing freely in decay creates this open airiness sound, and create a clarity that a lot of closed-backs suffer.

If you look at closed-back frequency responses, you can see the FR have certain similarities how it was tuned in recessing certain portions, probably to dampen certain significant reverberations at particular frequencies.

Yes. The only closed one I can remember hearing that seemed to have an open lively sound is MrSpeakers Ether 1.1 Closed. I know you didn't like it that much, but it was alive. In any case it appears problematic to make a good closed unit.

 

[Whazzzup]

You need one of each, like me.