[Rookie Rooster]

So i got this audio technica ath-ad900x two weeks ago, and so far the wide soundstage that many speak of seems no bigger than 2 inches from the earcups, i percieve... i listen at a "comfortable" level some would say ridiculously low (1/15 normally, 3/15 max. with this open headphone). I tried turning the volume up and i cant really decide if the siundstage is any bigger so...

Does turning down the volume diminishes the soundstage?

 

[KG Jag]

So how does it compare to other headphones you have heard (and can list)?
 
This is a can with a large sound stage.  However, headphones are not speakers.  You need to compare apples to apples.

 

[Rookie Rooster]

The only other headphone i own (and have heard of) is beats studio. Well its obviously bigger than my beats but as far as i percieve, its not that much of a difference

 

[Rookie Rooster]

The only other headphone i own (and have heard of) is beats studio. Well its obviously bigger than my beats but as far as i percieve, its not that much of a difference - not worthy of the open design to me imo. And speaking of large, i felt it is no more than 2 inches from the earcups. Is that large?

 

[KG Jag]

The only other headphone i own (and have heard of) is beats studio. Well its obviously bigger than my beats but as far as i percieve, its not that much of a difference - not worthy of the open design to me imo. And speaking of large, i felt it is no more than 2 inches from the earcups. Is that large?

I don't hear them the same way, so it's difficult to answer your question.  To my ears and in terms of sound stage size, the difference between the 900X and any closed can I have heard is day and night.
 
But yes, the fact that the drivers are so close to your ear (or in your ear canal in the case of IEM's) creates sound stage limitations vs. speakers that are often 10' and more from you.

 

[Rookie Rooster]

Umm, duh. Thats the problem, i cant see the day and night difference between the two, i mean, they do have different soundstages i hear, but the difference isnt worth the hassle of open back design to me...

 

[KG Jag]

But not for me and many others.  YMYC

 

[PurpleAngel]

Umm, duh. That's the problem, i cant see the day and night difference between the two, i mean, they do have different sound stages i hear, but the difference isn't worth the hassle of open back design to me...

 
What exactly are you plugging the ATH-AD900X headphones into?

 

[Rookie Rooster]

Samsung Galaxy S5 (yes)

 

[KG Jag]

I'm not familiar with your phone, but maybe you will get different results with a device dedicated to playing music at a CD or better level of quality.

 

[ProtegeManiac]

So i got this audio technica ath-ad900x two weeks ago, and so far the wide soundstage that many speak of seems no bigger than 2 inches from the earcups, i percieve... i listen at a "comfortable" level some would say ridiculously low (1/15 normally, 3/15 max. with this open headphone). I tried turning the volume up and i cant really decide if the siundstage is any bigger so...

 
It won't get spectacularly larger, even with speakers. Put the speakers in a small room, and lots of reflections being close to the wall, and you'd be lucky to actually hear any depth in the image. Even good speakers when they image a lot of depth in the soundstage are usually far from the walls and still have a lot of acoustic treatments on those walls.
 
With headphones reflections aren't a problem but the driver position relative to your ears, but then again if you think about it, at least the headphones can actually image sound behind where they are.
 
 

Does turning down the volume diminishes the soundstage?

 

It's the other way around - turning up the volume makes every sound source seem "bigger," louder and pushed forward more. With this in mind you are actually not interpreting the soundstage properly - what you think of as "wider" because it's louder is just as I described, making for a very loud signal on L-C-R as those are pushed forward, but the signals coming from between L-C and C-R will seem farther back. Listen again and look for these clues - when louder, is what you perceive to be a "wider" soundstage one that looks like Reed "Mr. Fantastic" Richards just became a drummer? You hear the cymbals way out in the flanks out front with the guitars, but the rest of the drums are farther to the center. There is no sense of depth between the vocals and the drums at all (but some drum hits may seem weaker), if not the bass drum being right up front with the vocals, which is Reed using his stretchy feet to hit the pedal while the drum is by the vocalist.

 

Lower volume, above; higher volume, below; excuse the quality, I just did a quickie sketch on paint. Both top-down views of rough soundstage on good headphones.

 

 

What that sounds like is more like a speaker system in a room with too many reflections off the left, right, and back wall than a speaker system with a real soundstage image. Either way, headphones or speakers, absolute size isn't the main point - I mean, to begin with, is there any room as wide as a stadium, just to be able to say that a system is faithful to how the band sounds like live? - but precise positioning around the vocals at a relative size. A proper desktop system for mastering music using pro monitors in an acoustically treated room for example isn't going to have the same size of soundstage as that test room outside of it that has B&W 800-series towers (like in Abbey Road), but still without that "desktop"/wallmount system the album can't be done right to begin with for the 800-series to play back well.

 

 

Speaker system in a proper room at good, slightly loud, volume, above; speakers in a too-small, reflective room, louder volume, below.

 

 

 

 

[Rookie Rooster]

I also use my pc (stillll no amp) and play FLAC/ALAC files, well the pc seemed to enlarge the soundstage maybe a lil bit, but still no different.

 

[Rookie Rooster]

So mr maniac (i didnt get your first name) youre telling me that umm, headphones can only go so far and what im hearing - thats it huh? Thats the big soundstage id read in reviews? Its funny when i just realised id been decieved when i read about how iems (i have ashure 215s) are inferior in soundstage to headphones (particularly open ones), judging from the imaging and space i felt in the 215, i guess i was expexting speaker like stuff in the ad900x (lol)...
Well umm, thanks for the long and comprehensive reply and the illustration, i really appreciate it but would amping it make any difference? While typing this reply i just saw a Fiio sth amp in the best sellers for like 30 USD (i was initially scared away when one serious reviewer listed listed his amp price tag as 20k+)

 

[KG Jag]

I also use my pc (stillll no amp) and play FLAC/ALAC files, well the pc seemed to enlarge the soundstage maybe a lil bit, but still no different.

If it only has on board sound and not a good sound card, it's not in the ballpark of what I suggested.  A quality DAP with a street price of about $150 and up would be.

 

[ProtegeManiac]

So mr maniac (i didnt get your first name) youre telling me that umm, headphones can only go so far and what im hearing - thats it huh? Thats the big soundstage id read in reviews?

 

It's "large" only the sense that it's about as large as you can get. Like I said, going up the ladder gets you more imaging precision, not absolute soundstage size, due to physics, unless you get around the physics and buy an AKG K1000. Precision is more important - there's no point in a huge soundstage if it's only because the instruments at the edge are pushed farther out, and sometimes, they're pushed too far forward, no depth, relative locations aren't precise, etc. That goes for both speakers and headphones.

 
 

Its funny when i just realised id been decieved when i read about how iems (i have ashure 215s) are inferior in soundstage to headphones (particularly open ones), judging from the imaging and space i felt in the 215, i guess i was expexting speaker like stuff in the ad900x (lol)...

 

Well, again, it is larger by comparison. People only rave about them because they either 1) appreciate what they gain over IEMs or lesser headphones, or 2) they aren't actually familiar with how speakers do soundstage, which is common in headphone audio forums when most of the demographic are younger and likely haven't even listened to, say, a Sonus Faber Guarneri Homage in a large room. Also many live in downtown areas, which means shared wall housing that make speakers problematic to begin with, and apart from not having heard grand speakers in huge rooms they probably haven't even been anywhere near a car properly set-up for EMMA or IASCA SQ competition since they take the city trains or cabs. Many don't even own a car. So they have absolutely no experience in how a car can mimic a nearfield system all along its dashboard (well, a few inches above it, but along it left to right).