[lkmich]

Quote:

Originally posted by Mike Scarpitti How much are you willing or able to spend?

Who knows? I'm definitely on a limited budget. As with my regular home system, I am going to try to make purchases of equipment that are always a bit better than I think I can afford, in an attempt to have gear that I can live with for many years. It's a continuing process. I certainly recognize that bigger $$$ means getting closer to satisfaction, in this case.

The point is not that I'm going to go out and buy an amp-headphone combo tomorrow based on everyone's comments (although this thread is providing some GREAT discussion of those tempting combos for future consideration). I'm just trying to figure out why some people seem to be happy with one system, while others are constantly buying and trading phones/amps for different purposes instead of dedicating themselves to finding that combo that really works all around.

And for getting at that point, this thread has been very informative.

 

[Mike Scarpitti]

Quote:

Originally posted by lkmich Who knows? I'm definitely on a limited budget. As with my regular home system, I am going to try to make purchases of equipment that are always a bit better than I think I can afford, in an attempt to have gear that I can live with for many years. It's a continuing process. I certainly recognize that bigger $$$ means getting closer to satisfaction, in this case. The point is not that I'm going to go out and buy an amp-headphone combo tomorrow based on everyone's comments (although this thread is providing some GREAT discussion of those tempting combos for future consideration). I'm just trying to figure out why some people seem to be happy with one system, while others are constantly buying and trading phones/amps for different purposes instead of dedicating themselves to finding that combo that really works all around. And for getting at that point, this thread has been very informative.

If it were argued that at least $2k were required to START you getting a near-universal phone, could that be done?

 

[lkmich]

Quote:

Originally posted by wallijonn while the AKG K501 is bemoaned (loved/hated) there are times when I just reach for them (usually when the ears are tired). so any headphone will have certain strengths and certain weaknesses. it all depends on what you want to live with and what condition your ears are in when you listen.

Funny, the K501 is what I am intrigued with right now. I need a pair of open phones for home use, and I'm really anxious to listen to these. My home speakers start rolling off around 70 HZ or so, and my current headphones are HD280s. As you probably guessed, I'm not a bass freak. Are the K501s really as anemic as everyone says? Have you compared them to the K401s, which are supposed to be more tipped up in the bass?

Besides the bass issues, all the other characteristics I've read about sound great-airy, open, good imaging, "hairs on the back of your neck type of sounds, etc."

 

[RVD]

Quote:

Originally posted by lkmich Yes, I've been taking psychic lessons.

I guess they are working.

I didn't even notice the last part of your post about wanting to know good all around combos. I should be more observant.

Quote:

Are the K501s really as anemic as everyone says? Have you compared them to the K401s

I compared the K501 and K401 out of a Melos and to me there was not much difference between the two other then a wider soundstage on the K501. The K501 to me was a pretty good headphone, but it seemed to lack body or was too polite which is probably a result of it being in the less bass department. Still a very good headphone, but I prefer others such as the HD600 and CD3000.

 

[ServinginEcuador]

Unlike CDPs, speakers, amps, etc., you have very little to work with when it comes to making a "perfect" all-around set of cans. How many one way speakers do you see sold on the marhet? Other than the Bose 901 with 9 separate one-way speakers I can't think of any. Almost all speakers are either 2-way of 3-way designs. Why? And conversely, why do we expect a single driver in a headphone to do what no speaker can? To go from the lowest of lows to the highest of highs in a convincing manner with one ddriver is nearly impossible. Big drivers have too much mass and inertia to hit the highs effectively; or are too small to hit the lows convincingly. A rigid driver for bass punch also makes it too heavy for great highs.

This seems to be proven out by designs such as the R10 and Grado HP-1000 series. They both do almost everything from about 50Hz or so and up better than almost anything else ever made, but really lack in bass when compared to other headphones.

Stax has the right idea with their ultra-thin, small, and light driver that has little to no mass or inertia for potentially great bass and highs. On paper they should be the best, and to most people's ears they are. But it also comes down to personal taste. One person here on the forum has both the R10 and some high end Stax and yet prefers the Sonys.

I think we expect too much from our headphones, and while none are perfect, and potentially never will be, be try to replace a 3-way speaker with a one-way set of headphones and then expect one set of cans to do it all well. Maybe Hirsch and Joelongwood are onto something here with their large headphone collection.

 

[Mike Scarpitti]

Quote:

Originally posted by ServinginEcuador Unlike CDPs, speakers, amps, etc., you have very little to work with when it comes to making a "perfect" all-around set of cans. How many one way speakers do you see sold on the marhet?

The volume that a speaker has to reach is much greater than a headphone. This si because headphone drivers are only a few inches from our ears. What is necessary to make a good speaker is not necessary for a good headphone.

Perfection is unattainable, however.

 

[markl]

Quote:

They both do almost everything from about 50Hz or so and up better than almost anything else ever made, but really lack in bass when compared to other headphones.

To an extent, I disagree. The R10 may have less at the very bottom octave (below 50 Hz), but IMO, the volume and amount of bass from there on up, is much more than the HD600 has. Bass is much more articulate, focused, and tight, containing much more tonal information than the HD600 is capable of delivering.

Mark

 

[ServinginEcuador]

Quote:

Originally posted by markl To an extent, I disagree. The R10 may have less at the very bottom octave (below 50 Hz), but IMO, the volume and amount of bass from there on up, is much more than the HD600 has. Bass is much more articulate, focused, and tight, containing much more tonal information than the HD600 is capable of delivering. Mark

Thanks for the clarifying remarks Mark. I left out that important part about how well it does the bass it does have, and now it sounds better with your explanation. When I spent some time with Hirsch's setup, the W2002s produced this wonderful bass note throughout this one song I ahve, yet when I put on the R10s it disappeared completely. It wasn't that low of a note, but it was gone on the R10s, and present with the W2002.



Mike,

I was merely referring to the physics of reproducing soudns from the lowest of lows to the highest of highs using one driver versus two or three. It is extremely difficult or impossible to get a single driver that can do this, therefore we shouldn't expect it from some headphones. I realize that the headphone driver sits a lot closer to your ears than speakers, it's just that the concept of a single all-around headphone is not even feasible using current materials and designs. Maybe one day they will invent the right materials and design that will allow a dynamic set of cans to have a much fuller 20Hz-20KHz range, but that day isn't today.

To clear up one thing, volume is volume no matter what the space is in which it is created. I think what you were trying to say is that it takes more power to fill the space of a room with 95dB of sound versus some cans sitting right next to my ears producing the same 95dB of sound. Am I right in my assumption here Mike?

 

[Mike Scarpitti]

Quote:

Originally posted by ServinginEcuador Mike, I was merely referring to the physics of reproducing soudns from the lowest of lows to the highest of highs using one driver versus two or three. It is extremely difficult or impossible to get a single driver that can do this, therefore we shouldn't expect it from some headphones.

It is level dependent. It is actually possible to do it at the loudness level at which a headphone operates. The point being is that it's harder to drive a much more massive loudspeaker diaphragm across the whole range at a much higher volume level than is required for a headphone. What works for headphones doesn't work for speakers, unfortunately.