[Woosh]

well i currently have a built in onboard SoundMax digital audio card. im looking to spend a little money and upgrade it the basic Creative Audigy series.

i am running these through a set of creative Inspire 4.1 channels. will i expect much difference between after the upgrade?

if anyone has upgraded from onboard sound to some after market sound cards and have much opinions and experience in this please give your advice!

cheers

 

[GoRedwings19]

I bought a xfi card the basic version for gaming and watching movies and some music listening via headphones.

I find there is an improvement especially for games and and watching movies. For this role it seems to do its function well. Even though I find it an improvement you might not find it to be the case.

See if you can pick one up used. I have seen then pop on the forums from time to time although you may have better luck on a used computing f/s forum.

I am sure you could pick one up for about $80 or so maybe even less.

 

[pomdomz]

Yes there will be a difference, like GoRedwings19 i got a Creative X fi xtrememusic too. for games pc entertainment its a great improvement from onboard. I have had the Audigy 2 Ls as well, i didn't like that one too much.

Also the Chaintech AV710 is not a bad card, i'm currently running it to my Zhaolu D2.0 (ad1852) to VAL M20 MKII book shelves. I was running the analogue off the card before i got the zhaolu, whilst nothing amazing, with hi-sampling mode on it does sound pretty good. But Zhaolu makes a huge improvement in sound. For $30aud its a great value card. It has 7.1 as well i believe.

 

[maia]

Yes, it does make a difference as stated... Less interferance as a dedicated PCI card was meant for audio unlike a Motherboard who has plenty of stuff cluttered.

 

[GoRedwings19]

I use to have one of those audigy 2 external soundcards. It was okay and there was a slight improvement over my laptop onboard sound. But for music I found while it was an easygoing sound it always felt it was very average at best, still better than the laptop onboard sound but that is hardly difficult.

 

[DrDobs]

Quote:

Originally Posted by maia Yes, it does make a difference as stated... Less interferance as a dedicated PCI card was meant for audio unlike a Motherboard who has plenty of stuff cluttered.

I've heard this mentioned before but am wondering if there really is any substantiated proof that because the sound chip is on a dedicated card, does it HAVE to sound better?

Also, this doesn't take into consideration digital audio whereby I would think there would be no difference between a cheapy on-board audio solution with digital out versus a $300 sound card with digital out. Or is there?

Somebody brought up in another thread that many of the on-board audio codec's will resample playback through the digital out to 48khz. Is this true of ALL on-board audio digital outs or are there some chipsets which will support the ability to change this in the software setup?

Personally, I listen mostly to mp3's recorded with EAC + LAME VBR and they are all 44.1 files. Wouldn't the output via digital out on a motherboard be identical to a SoundBlaster X-Fi digital out provided they are both exporting at 44.1?

Jon

 

[russdog]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrDobs I've heard this mentioned before but am wondering if there really is any substantiated proof that because the sound chip is on a dedicated card, does it HAVE to sound better? Also, this doesn't take into consideration digital audio whereby I would think there would be no difference between a cheapy on-board audio solution with digital out versus a $300 sound card with digital out. Or is there? Somebody brought up in another thread that many of the on-board audio codec's will resample playback through the digital out to 48khz. Is this true of ALL on-board audio digital outs or are there some chipsets which will support the ability to change this in the software setup? Personally, I listen mostly to mp3's recorded with EAC + LAME VBR and they are all 44.1 files. Wouldn't the output via digital out on a motherboard be identical to a SoundBlaster X-Fi digital out provided they are both exporting at 44.1? Jon

I looked into this last year, when I decided to spend a month taking all my CD's and making mp3 files (EAC/LAME at alt-preset-Extreme). Here's the way I now remember what I learned then:

1. Soundcards that come with computers are mediocre junk.
2. If you wanna listen to 5.1 music through speakers designed for computers, Audigy, etc. are fine and dandy.
3. If you wanna ship music to a good stereo, there are better choices.
4. Among the better choices, Echo Indigo was one of them.

So, I got a used Indigo off of ebay for something like $150. It took a couple weeks to find one for a good price. I am very happy with it. I use MediaMonkey, and it sounds great since I downloaded the driver that permits it to generate a 24-bit bitstream. There might be better choices but, since I'm happy with my Indigo, I don't keep up with that issue anymore.

Instead, I'm now thinking about an affordable DAC. But I won't be doing anything about that until I get my headphone story a bit sorted out first.

 

[stiben]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrDobs Personally, I listen mostly to mp3's recorded with EAC + LAME VBR and they are all 44.1 files. Wouldn't the output via digital out on a motherboard be identical to a SoundBlaster X-Fi digital out provided they are both exporting at 44.1?

No, their internal resampling algorithms are terrible - this was the major problem with using an Audigy for music playback.

Search the forums and you'll find that not all digital outputs are "bit perfect"

 

[DrDobs]

So what you are saying is that the digital out on the back of an X-Fi audio card will be far superior in transmitting that digital data over any on-board digital audio solution such as from Realtek? What would be the difference between the Chaintech vs X-Fi with digital out? When you factor in technologies like EAX, CMSS-3D, Crystalization, etc does the X-Fi still implement these features in their audio card PRIOR to outputting via digital out? If that is the case, this would be a major plus in my eyes for the X-Fi over a a Chaintech A710.

Assuming that one of the better digital outs is on the X-Fi or comparable audio card like EMU, etc. The next question is, what setup would likely produce cleaner sound?

A) X-Fi -> Digital Out to Digital in on $300 Home Theater Receiver -> Quality Bookshelf Speakers.

B) X-Fi -> Analog Out (using X-Fi internal DAC's) -> $100 Audiosource amplifier (no DAC, no Tuner, etc, just a raw amp) -> Quality Bookshelf Speakers.

I'm assuming the DAC's used on the X-Fi card are comparable to something produced in a mid-lower end Hi-Fi AV Receiver. (Harmon Karden, Denon, etc). What I'm not sure though is whether the amp in a Harmon Karden, Denon type AV receiver will produce better sound than a cheaper AMP only solution such as the Audiosource amp I mentioned above.

Anybody have any experience or have an educated guess as to which would be better?

Jon

 

[maarek99]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrDobs When you factor in technologies like EAX, CMSS-3D, Crystalization, etc does the X-Fi still implement these features in their audio card PRIOR to outputting via digital out? If that is the case, this would be a major plus in my eyes for the X-Fi over a a Chaintech A710.

Yes it does.

Quote:

A) X-Fi -> Digital Out to Digital in on $300 Home Theater Receiver -> Quality Bookshelf Speakers.

This most probably.

 

[necropimp]

i only suggest X-Fi if you are a gamer... there are better cards for music only out there

but if gaming is just as important to you as music http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/Produc...uctCode=290238 that's probably the best deal if you have the patience to wait for a mail-in rebate

 

[DrDobs]

Quote:

Originally Posted by necropimp i only suggest X-Fi if you are a gamer... there are better cards for music only out there but if gaming is just as important to you as music http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/Produc...uctCode=290238 that's probably the best deal if you have the patience to wait for a mail-in rebate

So what would you recomend that is truly better for music than the X-Fi? And if I'm using the digital out, what benefit would another card have over the X-Fi? Again, it's all just "bit-perfect" digital data travelling across the cable regardless of whether it's from EMU, Creative, etc.

 

[necropimp]

well if you aren't gaming and just want digital out there are options that cost quite a bit less

 

[alex_cs]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrDobs So what would you recomend that is truly better for music than the X-Fi? And if I'm using the digital out, what benefit would another card have over the X-Fi? Again, it's all just "bit-perfect" digital data travelling across the cable regardless of whether it's from EMU, Creative, etc.

explain what you want to get out of this soundcard? only bit perfect output?

for that, the chaintech av710 has optical digital out for very cheap, 20-30USD. the av710 doesnt have a coaxial digital out.

the ESI Juli@ is a step up, youve got optical and digital outs, and also RCA analog outs from its onboard DAC. this is i think between 100-200USD, i havent checked recently. very well put together card, is said to be on par with much more expensive cards. (this card also has ADC, you can convert your anolog music into digital if you have the urge)

the quality of optical digital outs and the toslink used can have an effect on jitter etc. from here it depends how discerning you are. some people cannot tell the difference, or hear jitter etc.

you will get the best sound from one of these cards and an external dac, cheap like the DAC-AH, zhaolu, going up to Storm D02, Stello DA220 even moreso.

a big bang for buck is the av710 and zhaolu or DAC-AH, for the money its quite impressive, especially when you get the zhaolu modified with caps and upgraded opamps or discrete outputs.

 

[DrDobs]

The thing here is Alex, to spend $200 on a DAC when you can use the built in DAC on either an X-Fi or Juli card seems kinda absurd. If I were planning on buying $1000+ speakers that might make some sense to squeeze out the best sound, but Im talking about hooking up a pair of $200 bookshelf speakers (AV123.com's X-LS pair).

In your scenerio I would buy either a $30 Chaintech card or a $150 Juli card, turn around and buy a $200 DAC, then another $200 amp then $200 on speakers. Does the $200 for the DAC *truly* justify the cost in this type of setup? I'd have to believe not. In the end, I"m trying to put together the most for the least.

As of right now I think the best options are to go with an X-Fi card at $90.00. Then buy the Sonic Impact Super T-Amp for $150.00, go analog out from the audio card to the amp, and then power those X-LS AV123.com speakers I was talking about for $240.00. Seems for around $500 I've put myself in the market for a pretty strong sounding system at that price point without comprimising the *possability* I may play a video game in the future while maintaining good enough audio performance. I just see that you are really only as strong as your weakest link and as long as I am buying $200 - $300 speakers, all the extra $$ on DAC's, AMP's, etc wouldn't likely render sound that much better.

Do you agree?