[YamiTenshi]

Quote:

Originally Posted by fjf /img/forum/go_quote.gif Boy, is this true!. My feelings about it exactly. It is deeply annoying. BTW, the tri-X was a black and white film. Sometimes I wish digital photo wasn't invented. Even color film shouldn't exist.

Not sure as far as that, but I do agree generally that digital photography can be needlessly complicated for the little added benefit of convenience. Yes, it's great that I can take 10,000 photos on one SD card, but the constant need to replace/recharge the battery, the lag time (no matter how short) for start-up, the "automatic" modes that are supposed to help us focus, etc, etc, etc.

As for buying a DSLR, I've considered it, but can't justify the ~$500 cost for a camera that does everything my old film camera already does just so I don't have to load film anymore. Film cost a lot less than a brand new camera that will be outdated in two years. For now I'm sticking with my little crappy, old, no name film camera. It hasn't failed me yet.

 

[kwkarth]

I think all of this grousing about P&S cameras not being what they used to be is somewhat misguided.

Most of the P&S cameras I've looked at are set by default from the factory to do all of those shutter delay inducing things that you all complain about, but most, if not all of those "features" can be disabled or configured to work in another way so as to eliminate or minimize the shutter release lag. Granted, there are still many cameras that are DOGS as far as shutter lag is concerned, but you don't have to spend a lot of money to find the ones that work well.

Photo quality, particularly in low light conditions is another matter, and there, you pretty much get what you pay for.

 

[mr_baseball_08]

I'm confused.. He doen't like confusing cameras and you guys want him to buy a DSLR which has more functions and features than a P&S would ever dream of having.

My advice is look at the Canon G9. Every digi cam is going to have the half press to focus feature, otherwise your camera will never have in focus pictures. I believe with the G9 you can turn off the flash and it supports up to ISO 1600, so you can probably take reasonable pictures in low light environments.

 

[screwdriver]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr_baseball_08 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I'm confused.. He doen't like confusing cameras and you guys want him to buy a DSLR which has more functions and features than a P&S would ever dream of having. My advice is look at the Canon G9. Every digi cam is going to have the half press to focus feature, otherwise your camera will never have in focus pictures. I believe with the G9 you can turn off the flash and it supports up to ISO 1600, so you can probably take reasonable pictures in low light environments.

because the entry level dslr has excellent quality photos and images compared to the point and shoot cameras esp in low light and high ISO - all you have to do is put it in automatic mode .

you can test this G9 and an enrty level dslr same siuiations low light changing to higher iso . youll see a lot of noise right away in the point and shoot cameras.

 

[kwkarth]

The Canon G9 is probably, for practical purposes, the best of the P&S cameras out there, but you will pay dearly for it. The G9 goes for $440-$500USD.
The Sony DSC-W300 is not a bad P&S camera at $300-$350USD. The lens on the Canon is better and the Canon body is overall 4x bigger than the Sony.

AFAIC, an optical viewfinder is a requirement for any good P&S camera and both of the aforementioned cameras have one. Canon also makes some less expensive PowerShots that aren't too bad, like the SD1100 @ $200USD.

Best of luck!

 

[trains are bad]

Quote:

I'm confused.. He doen't like confusing cameras and you guys want him to buy a DSLR which has more functions and features than a P&S would ever dream of having.

It's not that I don't like confusing cameras per se, it's that every digital point-and-shoot I've ever used suffered from too great of a 'shutter lag' and too slow of a rate-of-fire, besides being annoying to use because of poor design philiosophy. I cannot compose ands shoot photos with them because I expect the dang thing to go off when I press the button. If I have to move to a more complicated and expensive DSLR to get this basic level of performance, so be it, but I don't understand why I must, since the cheap 35mm p&s cameras of the 90s and current disposable 35mm drugstore cameras seem to actually, believe it or not, still work for me, their 'poor' image quality notwithstanding.

 

[AlanY]

Quote:

Originally Posted by trains are bad /img/forum/go_quote.gif It's not that I don't like confusing cameras per se, it's that every digital point-and-shoot I've ever used suffered from too great of a 'shutter lag' and too slow of a rate-of-fire, besides being annoying to use because of poor design philiosophy.

People in this thread have recommended cameras that don't suffer from these issues. At this point it seems like you're just complaining for the sake of complaining. Read a few camera forums if you don't trust the people on here. There are gems out there.

 

[marvin]

Quote:

Originally Posted by trains are bad /img/forum/go_quote.gif I would buy one, but I can't find one that I don't want to throw against a wall after trying to use it. I just got back from a family reunion and saw at least half a dozen newer digital point and shoots and I still haven't found one I'd buy. My problem is ergonomic in nature. To use firearme terms, I have a problem with their 'trigger pull', 'lock time' and 'rate of fire'.

In firearms terms, modern P&S cameras are designed to be the equivalent of a TEC-9 with a match grade barrel. Sure they'll print beautiful groups in a rest, but in actual use... It's just the nature of how people buy them. Informed users generally get their comparisons from internet sources, and well, pictures transmit real well and user experiences don't. As a result, the market's been trending to IQ under controlled conditions rather than real world handling. Even Fuji fell victim to this in the F31 to F50 transition.

IMO, the G9 goes the wrong way for you. It's a nice camera in controlled conditions, but it's priced in entry D-SLR territory. Compared to them, it's slow to focus (especially in low light), shot to shot speed isn't great, and burst mode is slow. Ergonomics aren't great for the price either. The Nikon D40 and Olympus E-410 with kit lenses are right in that price range (+/- $30) and will blow it away in regards to handling. Otherwise, hunt down a F31 or stick to film.

 

[kwkarth]

Quote:

Originally Posted by trains are bad /img/forum/go_quote.gif It's not that I don't like confusing cameras per se, it's that every digital point-and-shoot I've ever used suffered from too great of a 'shutter lag' and too slow of a rate-of-fire, besides being annoying to use because of poor design philiosophy. I cannot compose ands shoot photos with them because I expect the dang thing to go off when I press the button. If I have to move to a more complicated and expensive DSLR to get this basic level of performance, so be it, but I don't understand why I must, since the cheap 35mm p&s cameras of the 90s and current disposable 35mm drugstore cameras seem to actually, believe it or not, still work for me, their 'poor' image quality notwithstanding.

It's quite possible from what you've said so far that you've never learned to properly operate a digital P&S camera. Learn to properly use the tools you put your hand to, and you'll be much happier and more productive.

 

[M0T0XGUY]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kwkarth /img/forum/go_quote.gif It's quite possible from what you've said so far that you've never learned to properly operate a digital P&S camera. Learn to properly use the tools you put your hand to, and you'll be much happier and more productive.

I agree. 90% or more of shutter lag stems from the camera's AF system working its magic; half press the shutter button before each shot, and you're left with an experience comparable to that of 35mm film cameras.

Note also, Trains are Bad, that this same logic applies to even the fastest AF DSLR. Try and compose your shot with only one shutter press, for instance, and you'll still encounter some noticeable delay - more-so with lenses lacking a drive motor. Again, your old point and shoot camera is instantaneous because it compromises sophistication, control, and image quality for simplicity, speed, and cost. If you prefer this compromise, than I'd suggest sticking to disposable cameras or the one's you mention originally.

 

[chesebert]

Quote:

Originally Posted by davidhunternyc /img/forum/go_quote.gif There is a new camera by "Sigma". This company is known for making sensors for DSLR cameras. They just came out with a revolutionary camera that is slightly larger than a point-and-shoot camera but it has a full-sized image sensor that is used in full-sized DSLR cameras. It very utilitarian looking too. Like old Leica's. In smaller point-and-shoot cameras, the pixels are packed onto very small sized sensors, and with more pixels in smaller spaces, the more digital "noise" will result. This camera is the first of its kind. It limitations are is does not zoom at all, and there is no optical viewfinder. If you need an optical viewfinder, that would have to be purchased as a separate accessory.

didn't do so well in dpreview; great concept nevertheless

 

[Iron_Dreamer]

I've never used a P&S without significant shutter lag or a slow AF system. They all have at least one if not both. Whereas I've yet to use a DSLR with any significant shutter lag, and they all have AF'd quickly, at least in good light (this is as much dependent on the lens as anything).

I'd say an entry level Canon or Nikon body with a Sigma 30mm f/1.4 will get you as close as possible to having a P&S with uber-AF on a budget.