Oficial? NFB-11.38 Special Limited Edition
Feb 10, 2021 at 4:42 AM Post #31 of 44
Haha.
Yes, you are. :smile:

Wish to have an insight what the asr fellow would say without any measurements being done. ^^

That's another kind of bias, i'd say. :)

Have fun with the AGD anyway.
Measurements have their value but the crowd of ASR have the habit of taking things way out of perspective.

Can look at the SMSL M500 thermal "issue" thread for example.
M500 had a measured SINAD of 117. Apparently under certain thermal conditions the SINAD can drop in the worst case to around 110.
Both 117 and 110 values are way under the threshold of what is actually audible, you won't hear the difference period.
Yet people are going completely ballistic and want to send their unit back for a refund to buy a Topping..

Of course they have a point that SMSL should investigate what is going on and try to solve it for future revisions and/or products.
But demanding that SMSL takes back the unit because the measures SINAD is a couple points lower than what it could be makes absolutely no sense whatsoever to me. As said it is still way under threshold of being audible so is not like you can't enjoy the music from the unit anymore.

Without these extra measurements nobody would've know the slightly lower SINAD and everyone would just as happily enjoy the sound performance of the unit.
But people who always have been happy with the unit and praised it whenever possible now read the topic and saw the measurements and do a "test" for themselves with their unit and all of the sudden they conclude that indeed it sounds worse.... yeah right.. absolute 1000% bullsh*** but that is the power of the mind. They saw the measurements and now they hear what they want to hear. I know for certain that if you put an 117 SINDAD unit and a 110 SINAD (again worst case scenario) unit next to each other Amrim can not even if its life depends on it hear which is the 117 and which is the 110 SINAD unit. Perspective is completely lost.
 
Feb 10, 2021 at 6:35 AM Post #32 of 44
I know. ^^
Long time lurker at asr and i did recognize (and dig) the measurements , not only that one of the Agd R2R. :wink:

What should i say?
I like and love how my brain is playing tricks on me. :smile:

Being open minded is a gift, i'd say.
It's all about the music enjoyment, not the (electronic) gear. :metal:
 
Feb 11, 2021 at 5:35 AM Post #33 of 44
M500 had a measured SINAD of 117. Apparently under certain thermal conditions the SINAD can drop in the worst case to around 110.
Both 117 and 110 values are way under the threshold of what is actually audible, you won't hear the difference period.
Yet people are going completely ballistic and want to send their unit back for a refund to buy a Topping..

Of course they have a point that SMSL should investigate what is going on and try to solve it for future revisions and/or products.
Topping has bigger problems L30 blowing headphones and damaging hearing as they 'forgotten' about ESD protection. The same lack of ESD protection is found in their top product A90. So far no incidents, but another negligence in this design cause spreading ground loops making RCA inputs unusable. It is also off topic, but SMSL must investigate for a cause. Such performance drop can be in result of HF oscilation in some amps or DC regulators, it will be audible as it create a lot IMD distortions on any connected equipment. In such case it is a serious problem. Analyser will only show minor performance drop, it is because low pass filtering is in place. Both companies are in the same slot of Chineese junk.

The the other side this DAC is built like a high-end equipment. It looks inside messy, but everything is done with a care for SQ. There is no connectors, everything is manually soldered using a quality silver solder (not a ROHS approved stuff) and Audio GD is using quality components even in the entry-level products.
 
Last edited:
Feb 11, 2021 at 7:31 AM Post #34 of 44
Topping has bigger problems L30 blowing headphones and damaging hearing as they 'forgotten' about ESD protection. The same lack of ESD protection is found in their top product A90. So far no incidents, but another negligence in this design cause spreading ground loops making RCA inputs unusable. It is also off topic, but SMSL must investigate for a cause. Such performance drop can be in result of HF oscilation in some amps or DC regulators, it will be audible as it create a lot IMD distortions on any connected equipment. In such case it is a serious problem. Analyser will only show minor performance drop, it is because low pass filtering is in place. Both companies are in the same slot of Chineese junk.

The the other side this DAC is built like a high-end equipment. It looks inside messy, but everything is done with a care for SQ. There is no connectors, everything is manually soldered using a quality silver solder (not a ROHS approved stuff) and Audio GD is using quality components even in the entry-level products.
As said before I fully agree that SMSL should investigate the issue and fix it in future revision products.
But is this little drop in SINAD actually audible.. I highly doubt it simply because before this thread with extra measurements concerning SQ degradation everyone was enjoying their M500 unit and everyone was praising the SQ of the M500 given the price of the unit not a single complaint or thread was made about SQ degradation issues with the M500.
After the thread was posted about a possible thermal issue that could cause SQ degradation one after the other suddenly hears this SQ degradation.. the same persons who 2 weeks earlier were praising the M500 for the excellent SQ. In my opinion this is clearly a case of the mind between the ears and not the ears themselves. They read about a potential SQ degradation and now they have convinced themselves that they hear what they think "should" hear with this new information in mind.

If Amrim really have faith in his so called golden ears he should do listening tests portion before the measurements portion of his reviews.
Now his listening tests are willingly or unwillingly biased by the measurement numbers he just made. Many times he stated things like "I hear/notice some <insert audiophile lingo here> in the high tones which is "confirmed" by the graph in the measurement section". I honestly wonder if he would have heard or noticed the same thing if he did the listening before the measurements. I have the feeling that in a lot of cases he wouldn't.. He created those measurements graphs and that created an expectation on what to hear and the mind plays into that.

Another ASR relating thing i noticed..

The Review and Measurements of Audio-gd NFB-27.38 DAC and Headphone Amplifier

Interesting part in the listening test:

Listening Tests
Since I could not get the USB interface working without drivers on Audio-gd NFB-27.38, I used a Topping D10 DAC as the USB to S/PDIF bridge. I then ganged up both the Topping DX7s and Topping D10/Audio-gd combo in Roon so that I could play my reference tracks in sync. Levels were matched using a 1 Khz tone well below max level of Topping DX7s (and hence much, much lower than max level of Audio-gd NFB-27.38). I then used an AB switcher to instantly switch between on device versus another.

Testing was performed using Sennheiser HD-650 and HifiMan HE400i.

I could detect no difference in bass or mid-frequencies. In high-frequencies though, there was a subtle difference. They were a bit more emphasized in Audio-gd which gave a slightly more airy and open sound to Audio-gd. But as I focused on them, I realized the high notes are being distorted with the highs having a "sizzle" to them. That exaggerated their presence which could be to some people's liking. For me, as I focused on the same in Topping DX7s, I realized they were very clean and well defined whereas they were "blown" on the Audio-gd NFB-27.38 leading me to prefer the Topping version better.

I should emphasize that the above is very subtle effect. If I did not focus on it, I would find the two DACs to sound the same. Then again, younger people with better high frequency hearing than me will detect the above effect better than me which may lead them to more preference or dislike as the case may be. If you are older than 50, you can safely go with my impressions.

So he measures 60dB difference and yet the actual SQ is only a very subtle effect only heard when focussed on it and in a blind test probably would not even notice.
Yet there are 8 pages of post burning down Audio-GD because of the measurements by people who most likely never owned or even heard an Audio-GD unit. Apparently is the "cool thing" to jump on the criticize Audio-GD bandwagon with post how much garbage it is without zero actual experience.

Now back on topic..

How is the experience with the Amanero Combo384 windows 10 drivers?
Read on some places that it could be tricky to get the drivers installed and the unit recognized correctly.
 
Feb 11, 2021 at 12:57 PM Post #35 of 44
No issues so far on my R28 with the Surface Pro 7 and Win10.
(I still use a cheapo 10ft usb cable, plugged to the Surface DockingStation or the IFi USB-C otg cable)
 
Feb 11, 2021 at 1:33 PM Post #36 of 44
No issues so far on my R28 with the Surface Pro 7 and Win10.
(I still use a cheapo 10ft usb cable, plugged to the Surface DockingStation or the IFi USB-C otg cable)
Good to hear.
I also make use of "regular" USB cable to connect my DAC to my Windows computer. I don't really believe in €1000+ USB cables, even less due the price point of the equipment we're talking about here.
 
Feb 11, 2021 at 2:46 PM Post #37 of 44
How is the experience with the Amanero Combo384 windows 10 drivers?
Read on some places that it could be tricky to get the drivers installed and the unit recognized correctly.
There were constant problems with Windows 10 since the Creators version. They made changes to the entire USB drivers structure in order to implement UAC 2.0 compatibilty and it didn't work well. It is surprising that Geisha guy do not have a dedicated laptop with a more stable platform for testing, but it is a different matter. It could be also done on his Win10 PC assuming a fresh installation, not shared with his family members. Amanero did fix a problem temporarily by releasing a new driver and firmware update, targetting Win10. For about one year I don't hear problems, the latest Windows updates brought stability back. Now Amanero will work in UAC 2.0 mode with Windows drivers, you still need Amanero driver pack for ASIO support.
 
Last edited:
Feb 11, 2021 at 4:05 PM Post #38 of 44
There were constant problems with Windows 10 since the Creators version. They made changes to the entire USB drivers structure in order to implement UAC 2.0 compatibilty and it didn't work well. It is surprising that Geisha guy do not have a dedicated laptop with a more stable platform for testing, but it is a different matter. It could be also done on his Win10 PC assuming a fresh installation, not shared with his family members. Amanero did fix a problem temporarily by releasing a new driver and firmware update, targetting Win10. For about one year I don't hear problems, the latest Windows updates brough stability back. Now Amanero will work in UAC 2.0 mode with Windows drivers, you still need Amanero driver pack for ASIO support.
Thanks for the clarification.
Don't care so much for ASIO as WASAPI exclusive is the way to go anyway.
 
Mar 5, 2021 at 1:18 AM Post #41 of 44
Box got in today!
Well you know you have a genuine Audio-GD product when it says "Handle with careful" on the box :smiley:

20210305_070430.jpg



Only unboxed it and had a look at it. Don't have time to actually hook it up until the weekend.
Unit weighs a ton and feels like it's build like a tank.. I like it 🙂

I did take a look at all the connectors in the back and everything lines up just fine so the chinese who build this were not drunk after chinese new year.
I like the action of the volume knob. There's just enough "weight" behind turning the knob that makes it feel premium and quality. Nice aluminum knob to unlike some other chinese products I have... SMSL I'm looking at you.

Anyone have or tried to replace the volume knob, how is it mounted on the device?
It's a quality knob but I think I might prefer an aluminum knob with more grip / texture later on. The factory one is quite sleek.

Will post more when I have hooked it up and listened to it for some time.
 
Mar 5, 2021 at 5:30 AM Post #42 of 44
I like the action of the volume knob. There's just enough "weight" behind turning the knob that makes it feel premium and quality. Nice aluminum knob to unlike some other chinese products I have... SMSL I'm looking at you.

Anyone have or tried to replace the volume knob, how is it mounted on the device?
It's a quality knob but I think I might prefer an aluminum knob with more grip / texture later on. The factory one is quite sleek.

Will post more when I have hooked it up and listened to it for some time.
SMSL do not fit a knob with a vice, while Topping do in their A90 (perhaps you heard about), so why you think Audio GD would do? .LOL.

Wait till it get spoiled with sauce, it will get more friction. :wink:

Having the same one in my R2R-11, no complains. :)
 
Last edited:
Mar 8, 2021 at 9:00 AM Post #43 of 44
I got a couple of hours of music playback done over the weekend.
Have to say that it sounds just very good to my ears. On ASR Audio-GD products are being put down as "distortion boxes". Well apparently I'm super deaf as I don't here that. :relaxed:

I do feel like the mids sound a tiny bit more "hollow" on the Audio-GD compared with the SMSL stack. But this is based on a biased sighted A/B test.
I'm not at all certain that I would hear the difference between the two in a volume matched blind test.
I have not played with the jumper settings yet so that could improve.. or worsen the impression to.

Overall very positive first impression.
 
Mar 11, 2021 at 2:07 AM Post #44 of 44
Forgot to mention...
Besides how it sounds which is subjective the one fact that can't be ignored and I noticed almost right away is that the volume pot on the NFB is much better then the pot on the SP200.
At low volume there is a very noticable channel imbalance on the SP200, this is much less to I dare say not an issue unless you use sensitive IEMs on the NFB.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top