[ladon]

Hi guys, been reading a lot of threads lately and maybe this question is a bit out of ordinary. I am not looking for an upgrade, just looking to hear things a bit differently.
Currently I have the Sennheiser HD600 paired with my Matrix M-Stage HPA-1 amp, which I know is not that familiar to the community. I do like the sound, however almost always felt the sound is somewhat weak in bass, especially lower frequencies.
So that brings me to try new things, of course I could be misguided: it could be the nature of my headphones, or my ears. The DAC I tried both: my receiver (Denon AVR-4802 and the Uca202).
Does the massdrop O2 lack anything from the manufacturer version? Am I heading in the wrong direction completely?
Now forgive me, but my go-to check for bass is the track from intro of Ghost in the Shell (1995) - link below. Through my speakers and receiver sounds absolutely amazing: lively, strong and felt throughout entire room. It is of course, felt as vibration through furniture as well. Is it completely crazy to want to get similar emotion from bass in a headphone?

 

[ProtegeManiac]

Currently I have the Sennheiser HD600 paired with my Matrix M-Stage HPA-1 amp, which I know is not that familiar to the community. I do like the sound, however almost always felt the sound is somewhat weak in bass, especially lower frequencies.
---
Does the massdrop O2 lack anything from the manufacturer version? Am I heading in the wrong direction completely?

I don't think there's any difference aside from the customization options if you order JDSLabs.

That said, if you're looking for more bass, unless the M-Stage is seriously screwing that up (which I doubt), I doubt the O2 is what's going to give you what you're looking for since it doesn't roll off the highs and slightly sharpens when you crank it up.

What I'd suggest you get is a Burson Soloist or Conductor but even the SL version will cost several times the price of the O2.

So that brings me to try new things, of course I could be misguided: it could be the nature of my headphones, or my ears. The DAC I tried both: my receiver (Denon AVR-4802 and the Uca202).
Now forgive me, but my go-to check for bass is the track from intro of Ghost in the Shell (1995) - link below. Through my speakers and receiver sounds absolutely amazing: lively, strong and felt throughout entire room. It is of course, felt as vibration through furniture as well. Is it completely crazy to want to get similar emotion from bass in a headphone?

Or it could be:

1. The fit on the headphones. If they're brand new the earpads are relatively stiff but they're also relatively porous. Wear them tighter or get the HM5 leather pads (note - you'll have to gut the original pads and then fit the Brainwavz pads over the original mount, cut any excess material that gets in the way of the mounting mechanism, then you clip that onto the headphone cups). I have the angled velour earpads on mine and it boosts the low end just fine (without having to wear them tighter; although the primary reason for getting them was how the pad angle pulls the cymbals backwards a bit), but by that I mean I just get a fuller sound when the strings on a double bass are plucked or a deeper bass drum thud.

Alternately, maybe try an HD650 or LCD-2C.

2. Your expectations on how bass should be like. Even when speakers do not differ that much if not even roll off earlier than a headphone at the low frequencies, the way that speakers move air adds a tactile feel to the bass that enhances the bass, something that you can't reproduce in a headphone short of getting one that while it can at best only shake your head and eardrums, will also by that point have the tonal balance resembling more a Cadillac rollin' on them 24in Spinnerz blasting bass from four 12in Audiobahn woofaz that the whole ghetto can hear, but nobody complains because the owner is ridin' dirty and at least blasting tunes means he's not sneaking up for a drive-by.

In other words, no, you can't just override physics here. At best you'll have to run bass shakers on your seat to get some of that tactile effect.

 

[ladon]

I don't think there's any difference aside from the customization options if you order JDSLabs.

That said, if you're looking for more bass, unless the M-Stage is seriously screwing that up (which I doubt), I doubt the O2 is what's going to give you what you're looking for since it doesn't roll off the highs and slightly sharpens when you crank it up.

What I'd suggest you get is a Burson Soloist or Conductor but even the SL version will cost several times the price of the O2.

That sounds cool! So the Soloist: have you tried with HD600 and the bass is powerful and has good depth? If it's $500 and it offers improvement, it really is no problem, I can save up and get it for sure.

Or it could be:

1. The fit on the headphones. If they're brand new the earpads are relatively stiff but they're also relatively porous. Wear them tighter or get the HM5 leather pads (note - you'll have to gut the original pads and then fit the Brainwavz pads over the original mount, cut any excess material that gets in the way of the mounting mechanism, then you clip that onto the headphone cups). I have the angled velour earpads on mine and it boosts the low end just fine (without having to wear them tighter; although the primary reason for getting them was how the pad angle pulls the cymbals backwards a bit), but by that I mean I just get a fuller sound when the strings on a double bass are plucked or a deeper bass drum thud.

Alternately, maybe try an HD650 or LCD-2C.

2. Your expectations on how bass should be like. Even when speakers do not differ that much if not even roll off earlier than a headphone at the low frequencies, the way that speakers move air adds a tactile feel to the bass that enhances the bass, something that you can't reproduce in a headphone short of getting one that while it can at best only shake your head and eardrums, will also by that point have the tonal balance resembling more a Cadillac rollin' on them 24in Spinnerz blasting bass from four 12in Audiobahn woofaz that the whole ghetto can hear, but nobody complains because the owner is ridin' dirty and at least blasting tunes means he's not sneaking up for a drive-by.

In other words, no, you can't just override physics here. At best you'll have to run bass shakers on your seat to get some of that tactile effect.

So for your point 1: does this mean cutting into the headphones in any way? I understand the current pads will completely be destroyed, correct? And what about HM 5 pads, any gluing required?

2. No, not exactly... I understand what you describe and the skin sensory and furniture vibration is secondary effect, I was just implying an analogy. However, I am more precisely trying to describe the sound itself, it has more depth and accent from the speakers, even at low volume. I do see you offered LCD-2C as alternative, I am still learning and these are not planars, correct? And do these have strong bass to your taste?

 

[ProtegeManiac]

That sounds cool! So the Soloist: have you tried with HD600 and the bass is powerful and has good depth? If it's $500 and it offers improvement, it really is no problem, I can save up and get it for sure.

I reviewed the older Soloist before but note this is the $1,200 amp that replaced the HA160. It's the Soloist SL version that's a little over $500.
https://headfonics.com/2013/04/the-soloist-by-burson-audio/

So for your point 1: does this mean cutting into the headphones in any way? I understand the current pads will completely be destroyed, correct? And what about HM 5 pads, any gluing required

You don't cut into the headphones and no do not use glue as it could either be too thick and too stiff it can affect how the plastic frame fits back onto the earcup or leach out some residue somewhere.

All you're supposed to do is cut open the velour fabric on HD600 - either worn out original Sennheisers or third party pads that come with a similar plastic frame - so you can remove the foam and all the fabric. Then you insert that plastic frame into the HM5 earpads (if you get the angled pads, make sure you orient the frame and the earpads properly so they go on the headphone with the thicker part to the rear). Once it's in there you can see the leatherette covering some part of the plastic protrusion that will lock onto the earcup frame. Cut off excess leatherette and then just clip them back on. It'll make more sense if you remove the earpads now and look at the plastic mounting frame.

First pic here is how it would look when the HM5 earpad is mounted to the plastic clip. Note this is all velour - you need to get the hybrid leather+velour version or the all leather version.
https://imgur.com/a/OVS6T

Here's an adapter that I just found through Google so you don't have to tear up the stock earpads or any third party stock fit pads.
https://www.modhouseaudio.com/sennheiser-earpad-adapters/fz5hnljhxcvpcrybgsum5drj41umx0

2. No, not exactly... I understand what you describe and the skin sensory and furniture vibration is secondary effect, I was just implying an analogy. However, I am more precisely trying to describe the sound itself, it has more depth and accent from the speakers, even at low volume.

That's also partly due to the differences in how headphones work firing directly vs speakers firing into a larger space, although boosting the low end on the HD600 - either with very dense earpads or an equalizer should catch up a little bit.

That said, if you just mean texture and detail on the bass notes, you might still be expecting much more than what the HD600 can do considering even without the HM5 earpads and 35hz boost on the EQ I can still hear enough detail on slow tracks with delicate double bass plucking, although they do get some boost. What I needed the pads more for was harder hits on bass drums. Not that hardness was the only problem but the weaker low end makes the HD600 with the stock pads seem like the drums need to sound a little deeper.

I do see you offered LCD-2C as alternative, I am still learning and these are not planars, correct? And do these have strong bass to your taste?

They're more like the HD650 but with smoother, more nimble bass. If you ran metal on both the HD650 can sometimes have a slightly stronger thump; if you run a deliberately very bassy track or even a bass test on it, well, I've seen a chubby guy at a meet getting his cheeks wobbling as the LCD-2 earcups vibrated. HD6xx despite the plastic frames can't even do that (though that's not to say the frames aren't vibrating, just that it was vibrating in a very bad, obscures the bass kind of way on the older HD580). He set the LCD-2 on the desk and we can hear it "pounding" although it wasn't really pumping back and forth as a dynamic driver would.

Note that LCD-2 was being driven by a WooAudio WA6SE at the time, and even then was at really unsafe output levels. Although the advantage of both the HD650 and LCD-2 over the HD600 is that the latter has a 3500hz peak that can obscure what bass is actually there.