[NotoriousBIG_PJ]

I had a mini-meet with Aerius in my house today. We compared his modified akg k340's to my modified ps-1 pros. My impressions are as follows:

Highs:

The AKG’s highs were fairly rolled off. The decay off cymbal hits seemed to be cut in half in comparison to the Grado. The AKG’s treble is fairly smooth but can be too peaky on certain recordings, especially brass instruments. Cymbals exhibited a realistic tone and maintained a nice shape, meaning each cymbal hit sounded unique rather than the same. The Grado’s highs exhibited none of these frequency anomalies while matching or bettering the AKG in all aspects. The overall tone of the treble was similar on each headphone.

AKG: 7.5
Grado: 9.0 (I wouldn’t award any current headphone a 10 for what its worth)

Midrange:

The AKG mids had a natural warm tone with unnatural peaks and valleys in the frequency range and a strange reverb that showed up on a few recordings. The midrange realism varied from recording to recording depending on which instruments were present and the frequency range the singer sang under. Overall I was not impressed with the mids (given the hype I had been reading about them). The Grado midrange also had a natural warm tone, though a bit less warm than the AKG but close. The Grado mids possessed none of these strange anomalies and sounded fantastic on every recording. I found the Grado midrange to be a bit fuller sounding as well.

AKG: 7.0
Grado: 9.5

Lows:

The AKG had a lot more lows then I expected, about the same quantity as the Grado. Unfortunately this bass was more bloated and less detailed then the Grado’s bass. Each headphone probably conveys more bass then was intended by the recording.

AKG: 6.0
Grado: 8.0

Soundstage and Imaging:

The AKG and the Grado shared a similar forwardness in their sound. Each positioned the singer just in front of my face and each placed instruments between or behind my ears (in comparison the rs-1 doesn’t do this behind your ears soundstage and places the singer more upfront). The Grado’s soundstage was larger and sounded more dynamic. Imaging on both headphones was nice. Instruments appeared where they should and had their own space on the stage. Each headphone was able to convey depth in recordings and had a great cohesiveness to the stage that many upper-tier headphones lack (no 3-blob in a headphone effect or airiness here). The Grado’s did a bit better job positioning on the low end but overall the imaging was close. Unfortunately the AKG has that closed in cave sound that all closed headphones seem to suffer from and this limited my appreciation for its stage.

AKG: 7.5
Grado: 8.5

Detail:

The AKG detail in the midrange was similar to the Grado. The highs go to the Grado’s because of the extension they provided. Where the AKG’s lost out was is in the detail of the bass. The detail the Grado low end provided wasn’t present in the AKG. The nice thing about each headphone is that the details did not come at the cost of smoothness, which I find really important in conveying realism.

AKG: 7.7
Grado: 9.0

Overall:

The AKG did not have my foot tapping like the Grado did. I think this was due to the AKG’s possessing less impact than the Grados, as their PRAT was pretty good, although my recordings that I test speed with all involve cymbals, so it was tough to tell for certain because of the rolled off treble of the headphone.
Each headphone had a similar balance in the amount of highs, mids and lows they presented. Interestingly enough, without all the peaks and valleys, the AKG’s overall tonal balance would be more similar to the PS-1 then any other Grado headphone.
The Grado really shined with the amount of clarity it provided. One gets a sense that one is hearing what was portrayed on the recording, nothing more, nothing less.

AKG: 7.5
Grado: 9.2

Value:

The best compliment I can give the AKG k340 is that it sounds like a closed poor mans PS-1. They are certainly a steal at their used prices and I would recommend them over many higher priced headphones including any dynamic headphone by Sennheiser or Sony. Note I have only heard modified AKG k340 and these are the bass heavy version.

AKG: 9.0
Grado: 5.5

Other Notes:

Aerius’s system was considerably smoother sounding then the last time I listened to it two winters a go. I also tried out his copper magnet wire interconnects on my system and they didn’t work so well. What was full bass and added warmth on his system became bloated bass with a darker sound and a veil on my system.

Biggie.

 

[aerius]

Pretty much agree with Biggie's assessment of my K340's as driven by the mini-Gilmore. It's not the best match; tone, midrange, bass control, and soundstage are a little bit off as compared to my tube amp, but the basic character of the 'phone remains the same except for PRaT. It ain't there without tubes.

Impressions of the PS-1 Pro:

Highs are a lot more extended and to me the detail level sounds a fair bit better. For instance when ride cymbals are rapidly chittering off each other in the semi-open position, my K340 misses half the hits and I have to strain to hear what is there. The PS-1 captures every last ricochet of the cymbals and their decay, but at the same time it doesn't shove it in my face, it's there and it's part of the music. It's not artificially highlighted, and most importantly it's neither harsh nor fatiguing.

The midrange is a lot more even than my K340, though it still remains on the warm side which is the way I like it. Vocals, violins, guitars (acoustic & electric), came through as well as I've ever heard. Personally I'd like a little bit more warmth but that's just my preference.

Bass was not quite what I was expecting. Given the impressions I'd read I thought there'd be huge crazy amounts of it, but there wasn't. It was about the same as my K340 which is a bit on the heavy side. The PS-1 is noticeably faster and more detailed in the bass, but at the same time it doesn't screw up the decay like say, a Senn 650 or Stax 404/313.

"Little Amsterdam" by Tori Amos is track which to date only the K340 and now the PS-1 have gotten right. It opens up with the low notes of a Bösendorfer Imperial Grand piano, it's quite hard to get the tone, attack, and decay of the notes right. Most headphones only get one of the three, if that. The K340 & PS-1 get all three, but the latter adds a bit of detail & texture which the former lacks as well as keeping the notes from running into each other. It's tighter and more in control.

The soundstage as mentioned is remarkably similar. The difference I noticed was in imaging and the way sound seems to propagate from the vitual source. On a cymbal hit for instance, the sound should travel outwards in all directions from the cymbal, then you hear a mix of the direct sound and the sound that bounced off the walls & other surfaces. The PS-1 did that. The K340 does it most of the time, but sometimes it seems to beam the sound in a cone towards you. And with the mini-Gilmore the cave effect is worsened. The cave has well defined walls instead of a fuzzy boundary like it does with my tube amp.

Misc notes. The PS-1 is with the possible exception of my K340, the only headphone I've heard which sounds great with every kind of music I can think of. During the course of my listening I had everything from screaming deathmetal to highland fiddles to blues to rock & alternative and female vocals and some stuff which I can't even categorize. With my current testing system it usually doesn't take more than 5-6 songs before I go "this sucks" when testing out gear. Didn't happen with the PS-1 Pro, went through CD after CD and they all sounded great and I kept grooving along. And in the end, that's the best thing I can say about audio gear, it keeps me grooving and listening to music for as long as I want.

And of course, thanks to Biggie for letting me drop by and listen to all his gear.

 

[NotoriousBIG_PJ]

I'm going to test soon what a gold cable can do to the midrange warmth in my system. I wouldn't mind a little bit more warmth, but I'm pretty certain I should continue to stay away from copper interconnects lol. I found your gilmore system lacked the refinement/detail in the highs that my tube system has when using the ps-1's so I took that into consideration when comparing the k340's highs.

Note to all that what I posted was not a review, but impressions based on a few hours of quiet listening with my reference CD.

Biggie.

 

[aerius]

Speaking of cables...I was saying yesterday how my system didn't seem to have the resolution needed for cables to have much of an effect. Other than junk cables and my DIY silver cables, everything sounds pretty much the same. Funny thing was I changed the power cord on my amp (was 18ga lamp cord, yes, it really was lamp cord, now 14ga romex house wire) about 2 weeks ago and put in a line filter at the same time, no real difference, slightly blacker background and that was it.

Just for the heck of it, I swapped in my green cables which are 22ga magnet wire for the white cables 28ga magnet wire which was the one that bloated up the sound on Biggie's rig. There was marginal improvement in the bass on my rig, but the strange part is the sound is louder and more dynamic. Never did that before with the old lamp cord power cord. Killed one weak spot in my system and now I have to go re-evaluate the rest of it.

 

[philodox]

So all the K340 listening was done on your Gilmore Eaphan? If so, I can see why the impressions came out like this... they sound much better on his tube amp. Still, this has gotten me very interested in those PS-1's... I hope you get a chance to come to the Hamilton Meet Biggie.

You might find my K340's more to your liking in the Treble and Bass areas, although you might see them as being bass shy. Either way it should be interesting.

PS. Do you generally listen to your music loudly Jamie? I find that most people [aerius is excluded here] who enjoy the K340's tend to listen to their music quite loudly. I find that their detail, speed and prat are great when you turn the music up, but it is a little lackluster when at moderate volumes.

 

[NotoriousBIG_PJ]

The AKG's weren't a good fit with my amp. The sound lacked some serious dynamics so I stuck to the gilmore, which I am quite familar with having owned one previously. I listen louder than Aerius but much less loud than my brother. So somewhere in between. I'm not picky as long as the system is not fatiguing. On fatiguing systems I listen incredibly low.

Biggie.

 

[philodox]

Quote:

Originally Posted by NotoriousBIG_PJ The AKG's weren't a good fit with my amp. The sound lacked some serious dynamics so I stuck to the gilmore, which I am quite familar with having owned one previously.

Is your amp specifically tweaked for low impedance headphones? Wait until you hear the K340's on my Dynahi.

PS. I added some more to that post above while you were typing your response.

 

[NotoriousBIG_PJ]

I also edited my reply.

I think you would need an equalizer to fix the k340's problems unless your dynaha has the reverse frequency response of the cans lol. And I don't like closed headphones in general as much as open.

Biggie.

 

[philodox]

Quote:

Originally Posted by NotoriousBIG_PJ I'm not picky as long as the system is not fatiguing.

I'm with you there.

I was talking to Larry [headphile] recently and he asked whether or not I listen to my music loudly. After I answered he said that he can't understand why more people don't as music is quite loud at concerts... and isnt that what we are all trying to emulate? Quote:

Originally Posted by NotoriousBIG_PJ I think you would need an equalizer to fix the k340's problems unless your dynaha has the reverse frequency response of the cans lol. And I don't like closed headphones in general as much as open.

No equalizer needed for these ears.

I wouldn't really call the K340 a closed headphone, they certainly don't sound that way.

 

[NotoriousBIG_PJ]

Quote:

Originally Posted by philodox I'm with you there. I was talking to Larry [headphile] recently and he asked whether or not I listen to my music loudly. After I answered he said that he can't understand why more people don't as music is quite loud at concerts... and isnt that what we are all trying to emulate?No equalizer needed for these ears.

Actually I find concerts and clubs quite deafening. I get temporary titinitus after a few minutes of that volume.

Quote:

Originally Posted by philodox I wouldn't really call the K340 a closed headphone, they certainly don't sound that way.

Live with a grado for a week and you might change your mind hehe. When I went from beyer 250-80 to rs-1 I didn't notice the difference, but then when I went back to the beyer after a week of rs-1 I noticed the cave sound big time. Certainly the k340 cave sound isn't as bad as the beyer hehe.

Biggie.

 

[aerius]

Quote:

Originally Posted by philodox So all the K340 listening was done on your Gilmore Eaphan? If so, I can see why the impressions came out like this... they sound much better on his tube amp.

Better, but not that much better, it's not a night & day difference or anything like that. It might be enough to push up the scores maybe half a point but that's about it. And though the midrange is nicer & warmer, the tube amp does little to fix that weird colouration/resonance which my K340 has.


Quote:

I was talking to Larry [headphile] recently and he asked whether or not I listen to my music loudly. After I answered he said that he can't understand why more people don't as music is quite loud at concerts... and isnt that what we are all trying to emulate?No equalizer needed for these ears.

Because if I did I'd be deaf. Plus the ability to retain realistic details and dynamics at a lower listening level is the true test of a headphone's ability to reproduce low-level information. One thing I've found with many headphones is that as I slowly turn the volume up, they suddenly go from sounding like crap to sounding decent. That tells me that the headphone can't reproduce low-level details, and thus will only sound good at a high volume.

On a good headphone such as the PS-1, K340, or Omega 2, the details & harmonics will slowly fade below your threshold of hearing as you turn the volume down. It will not go from sounding good to sounding like crap with a 2° turn on the volume knob. The basic character of the 'phone stays the same all the way through. I can't say that about my Senn 580 or Grado 225, both have a certain point where they rapidly "go dead".

Quote:

I wouldn't really call the K340 a closed headphone, they certainly don't sound that way.

Not once you get used to them. But as Jamie said, when you go back & forth you'll know it.

 

[Jon L]

No doubt PS-1 are great 'phones; they sounded great balanced from Gilmore balanced reference at recent SoCal meet. But the amp requirement for K340 is on an entirely different plane unfortunately, which is why I gave up trying to power my modded K340 even from 125 wpc SS amp and 30 wpc tube amp (they do sound nice though). I really think K340 needs a purpose-built SS monster designed for high impedance phones..

I just heard word from Chillysalsa that my Dynahi has just been shipped

And what's all this talk about weird resonances and "colorations"? If you have this problem, you guys really should look into reversing the "tape" mod (closing the earcup opening), and maybe going back to cotton (just less amount) instead of going nude or blue-tak.

 

[aerius]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jon L And what's all this talk about weird resonances and "colorations"? If you have this problem, you guys really should look into reversing the "tape" mod (closing the earcup opening), and maybe going back to cotton (just less amount) instead of going nude or blue-tak.

Been there, done that, tried it all. On the K340 version I have the colouration's there and there's nothing that'll get rid of it. Reduce, yes, eliminate, no. It's especially apparent on acoustic guitars. Listen to "Winter Solice" or "The Messenger" by The Tea Party or "Lost Cause" by Beck. During the opening guitar intros to these songs, the guitars don't ring out properly and sound kinda cheap. The tone isn't right and there's a weird resonance/echo effect in "Lost Cause".

 

[philodox]

Quote:

Originally Posted by NotoriousBIG_PJ Actually I find concerts and clubs quite deafening. I get temporary titinitus after a few minutes of that volume.

Don't stand next to the speakers.

I'm not saying that I listen at quite that loud, but I definately listen quite loud compared to some. I find that with a lot of headphones, the K340 in particular, you miss out on quite a bit that they have to offer if you keep the volume too low. I don't know how aerius does it... it feels like a tease when I don't adjust the volume after he has been listening.

Quote:

Originally Posted by NotoriousBIG_PJ Live with a grado for a week and you might change your mind hehe. When I went from beyer 250-80 to rs-1 I didn't notice the difference, but then when I went back to the beyer after a week of rs-1 I noticed the cave sound big time. Certainly the k340 cave sound isn't as bad as the beyer hehe.

The K340 cave sound... lol, obviously you have not heard the Qualias... now there is cave sound.

Quote:

Originally Posted by aerius Because if I did I'd be deaf.

I'm not deaf.

Quote:

Originally Posted by aerius On a good headphone such as the PS-1, K340, or Omega 2, the details & harmonics will slowly fade below your threshold of hearing as you turn the volume down. It will not go from sounding good to sounding like crap with a 2° turn on the volume knob. The basic character of the 'phone stays the same all the way through. I can't say that about my Senn 580 or Grado 225, both have a certain point where they rapidly "go dead".

True, the K340 don't all of a sudden turn into crap... but I do like them a lot better when they are played loud. This could just be personal preference though. Quote:

Originally Posted by aerius Not once you get used to them. But as Jamie said, when you go back & forth you'll know it.

Cool, I will be interested in hearing it. I havent noticed this so far. Quote:

Originally Posted by Jon L But the amp requirement for K340 is on an entirely different plane unfortunately, which is why I gave up trying to power my modded K340 even from 125 wpc SS amp and 30 wpc tube amp (they do sound nice though). I really think K340 needs a purpose-built SS monster designed for high impedance phones...

Exactly.

BTW. I don't have any resonance or colouration problems with my K340... or at least not anything negative. Everything has some sort of colouration

 

[NotoriousBIG_PJ]

Uh you quoted Aerius and then put my name lol.

Biggie.