O2 vs TOTL

[Anaxilus]

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IMO those things all factor into instrument separation during busy passages and that's where the O2 won.  If those aren't good enough stuff just tends to get blended together.

 
Not at all.  You would hear it in slower passages as well where the O2 despite it's speed advantage loses out on resolving that information.  He's talking about stuff you would hear regardless of speed, for example ambient cues and subtle dynamics in recordings that have that information.  None of my metal is well enough recorded to portray that information.  I'd need some obscure Scandinavian symphonic metal band remastered by LFF most likely.  Could be you are fine w/ the ODAC/O2 combo for your content which is a good thing and huge money saver.  
 
I seriously think the CD player is doing weird stuff man.  This is why I got a separate ODAC in it's own box among other reasons.

 

[purrin]

I'm not sure tube bloom with metal would be good either.

 

[Anaxilus]

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I'm not sure tube bloom with metal would be good either.

 
The 6SN7's in my S7 have no problem w/ speed of course it's a totally different tube and topology w/ 3 watts v. 1 watt.  I can pick apart every note in American Idiot, resolve the cymbal crashes in 'Take a Look Around' and various other torture tests I use including the chakraphones.  You're BA doesn't sound as slow as he's describing either but it was being fed a PWD and not some frankentube CD player w/ 'clarity' caps.  I could be wrong, I'll check out the BA again later in the week.

 

[purrin]

I think the power is the same around ~200mW into HD800s ~300ohms?. The S7 wins out at 8ohms and I think has lower output Z. We should actually measure it ourselves.

 

[Anaxilus]

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I think the power is the same around ~200mW into HD800s ~300ohms?. The S7 wins out at 8ohms and I think has lower output Z. We should actually measure it ourselves.

 
Agreed.  I wish we could measure some Woos too, I have suspicions....

 

[SoupRKnowva]

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The 6SN7's in my S7 have no problem w/ speed of course it's a totally different tube and topology w/ 3 watts v. 1 watt.  I can pick apart every note in American Idiot, resolve the cymbal crashes in 'Take a Look Around' and various other torture tests I use including the chakraphones.  You're BA doesn't sound as slow as he's describing either but it was being fed a PWD and not some frankentube CD player w/ 'clarity' caps.  I could be wrong, I'll check out the BA again later in the week.

 
no offense but i wouldnt consider any of those to be a torture test for equipment. one of the first things i always run through when im testing a new anything, is the first track off of the cd Antithesis by Origin. On anything but top shelf equipment this wil be a wall of noise. the best i have ever heard it(and actually when i realized how truelly amazing the recording quality is) was on the JH3A demo at canjam 2010, ever since then ive heard only one rig get close, and that was on the Sr-009 at ChiUniFi, on these two rigs, this recording has a very clearly delineated space for each performer and space around them all. it is truely amazing on the right equipment. I would go so far as to say its the best metal recording outside of Aenima and Lateralus by Tool.
 
tl;dr, anything that can pick apart Antithesis by Origin is awesome...otherwise...

 

[maverickronin]

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Some classical can be just as complex if not more.

 
Don't doubt it but I don't listen to as much classical so I can't speak to authoritatively on it.  But...as Anax mentioned below a lot of metal doesn't always have the best production values.  That doesn't mean that information isn't there though.  It's just buried deeper by DRC and suboptimal mixing.
 
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Not at all.  You would hear it in slower passages as well where the O2 despite it's speed advantage loses out on resolving that information.  He's talking about stuff you would hear regardless of speed, for example ambient cues and subtle dynamics in recordings that have that information.

 
I can't really say I've ever heard that kind of thing.
 
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I'm not sure tube bloom with metal would be good either.

 
Good with Tarja and other symphonic/operatic stuff.  Not so much with death, thrash, or even power/prog...

 

[Anaxilus]

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no offense but i wouldnt consider any of those to be a torture test for equipment. one of the first things i always run through when im testing a new anything, is the first track off of the cd Antithesis by Origin. On anything but top shelf equipment this wil be a wall of noise. the best i have ever heard it(and actually when i realized how truelly amazing the recording quality is) was on the JH3A demo at canjam 2010, ever since then ive heard only one rig get close, and that was on the Sr-009 at ChiUniFi, on these two rigs, this recording has a very clearly delineated space for each performer and space around them all. it is truely amazing on the right equipment. I would go so far as to say its the best metal recording outside of Aenima and Lateralus by Tool.
 
tl;dr, anything that can pick apart Antithesis by Origin is awesome...otherwise...

 
Sorry to burst your bubble but I totally disagree.  I just ran The Aftermath and the HD800 picked it apart no problem.  Bass/Lead guitar, double kicks, toms, snares, cymbals all there and separated.  There is nothing in that track more difficult to render than the Cymbal Crashes around 3:20 and 4:15 in 'Take a Look Around'.  American Idiot is great because each instrument is properly mic'd and there is a lot of stuff going on around 1:45 on and it sounds good.  

 

[Anaxilus]

This is what I used to use but it sounds like s**t.  Maybe I can get LFF to remaster it.
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6kZ99YSV1k
 
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Btw Mav, thx for the impressions!  Didn't mean to sound like I was coming down on you, I agree w/ most of your impressions.  I hope there is a more ideal setting for your tests later on to verify and hear some of the stuff we have been talking about.

 

[SoupRKnowva]

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Sorry to burst your bubble but I totally disagree.  I just ran The Aftermath and the HD800 picked it apart no problem.  Bass/Lead guitar, double kicks, toms, snares, cymbals all there and separated.  There is nothing in that track more difficult to render than the Cymbal Crashes around 3:20 and 4:15 in 'Take a Look Around'.  American Idiot is great because each instrument is properly mic'd and there is a lot of stuff going on around 1:45 on and it sounds good.  

 
you just used a HD800 out of a Super 7 out of a PWD i would assume...if thats not a top shelf rig im not sure what is

 
though i fundamentally disagree with how the HD800 presents soundstage...so i guess theres that

 

[Anaxilus]

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you just used a HD800 out of a Super 7 out of a PWD i would assume...if thats not a top shelf rig im not sure what is

 
though i fundamentally disagree with how the HD800 presents soundstage...so i guess theres that

 
U have a point there.  

 
SS on the HD800 is another wild card, kind of like the HD800 lacking bass.  It's pretty much wider than most everything else out there but how much and where it images is very much a function of the upstream gear.  Btw, thx for the tip, I'll grab the Origin CD.

 

[SoupRKnowva]

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U have a point there.  

 
SS on the HD800 is another wild card, kind of like the HD800 lacking bass.  It's pretty much wider than most everything else out there but how much and where it images is very much a function of the upstream gear.  Btw, thx for the tip, I'll grab the Origin CD.

 
no problem, its just some of the most instense music ive got, and i really do find that on great gear it sounds spectacular. do you agree on that point at least? its certainly not like most Technical Death Metal in that regard.

 

[Anaxilus]

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no problem, its just some of the most instense music ive got, and i really do find that on great gear it sounds spectacular. do you agree on that point at least? its certainly not like most Technical Death Metal in that regard.

 
Well, I just heard the youtube and everything on youtube sounds bad on my rig now, even the 'good' recordings but I got the speed and separation down and there is music in there.  The CD should be at my door Wed.  I'm always looking for new audio torture devices and hopefully more listening content.  
 
I am more of a SLipKnot sort of guy though.  

 

 

[SoupRKnowva]

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I am more of a SLipKnot sort of guy though.  

 
 

to each there own man, i dont judge others for their taste in music...though if i did id call slipknot garbage and a terrible attempt at metalcore and one of the founders of Nu-Metal, and anyone who founded nu-metal should go drink bleach

 
 
Edit: one thing i freaking love about antithesis though is that oh so delicious guitar tone...now i have to go listen to that cd, it was something they lost with the newest cd that came out last year

 

[Anaxilus]

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to each there own man, i dont judge others for their taste in music...though if i did id call slipknot garbage and a terrible attempt at metalcore and one of the founders of Nu-Metal, and anyone who founded nu-metal should go drink bleach

Bleach is delicious and has pharmacological properties just like green tea.  

 
Here's another.  

 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oeIc4CEARHE