[mbriant]

The more things change, the more they stay the same....

April, 2006
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=175605


March 2004
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=64449


August 2003
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=43970


April 2002 -
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/showpost.php?p=111779

Quote:

I also never participated in the threads decrying how head-fi had changed, and the threads were becoming so stupid, etc.

As you can see, at the time the above post was made more than 5 years ago, Head-fi was less than 10 months old and already there were "Head-fi has changed" posts in existence.


The number of visitors online has and always will fluctuate. And since audio is an extremely opinionated subject in the first place, there will always be some who will have negative things to say about the site and/or it's membership. Don't let the occasional negative comment about head-fi or it's membership give you the impression that it's a fact, or that the majority of members think that way ... there are always going to be those who think differently.

And especially don't let small pockets of disgruntled members/former members convince you that head-fi is this or that .... they usually have their own, often immature and/or devious agendas for trashing the place. In fact, you'll find the odd one or two will always gravitate to threads like this .... so they can take yet another shot at us. Many of these folks are somehow under the delusion that they or their tiny clique know more about everything than everyone else and that their opinions and their opinions only, are correct. Very often their ongoing criticisms are nothing more than sour grapes over some old, unrelated issue. That's not to say there's not always room for improvement at Head-fi .... but one shouldn't take the chronic complainers at face value. In fact, hear-say, half-truths, misinformation, exaggerations, manipulation, and sometimes even outright lies are more the norm with them.

Just as in life, at Head-fi everyone will have their own opinion of "the good old days" ..... depending on when they joined and who the active and/or "colourful" posters were at that time.

A guarantee that things will change should be added to death and taxes as a universal constant. Some people can't accept change ... so they leave...or worse, they stay and continuously complain. Others welcome change as a natural part of existence and move forward with it.

 

[Jahn]

I admit to slowing down too - my post ratio hasn't been above 20 per day in ages. But when I went to the 2nd National Meet, lemme tell ya - Head-fi's gonig strong. And I agree with the above, the Apache was a killer amp!

 

[ecclesand]

I typically avoid posting in threads like this because they usually contain posts from old-timers yearning for "better days"...and, the uneasy feeling that if I did post, I would get flamed for invading the "club". With that said...hit me with your best shot!

 

[Flasken]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ecclesand /img/forum/go_quote.gif I typically avoid posting in threads like this because they usually contain posts from old-timers yearning for "better days"...and, the uneasy feeling that if I did post, I would get flamed for invading the "club". With that said...hit me with your best shot!

It's just not the case anymore, simply because oldtimers have experienced the "head-fi has changed" threads so many times, and it has already been concluded that change is natural and that we should just look forward and enjoy the ride.

Well put mbriant.

 

[boomana]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mrvile /img/forum/go_quote.gif Why do you do that? The great thing about Head-Fi, or any online community, as a resource is the sheer amount of experience that goes into it. A collection of a few short reviews bears a lot more weight then a lengthy review done by a single person. I may read markl's review about such-and-such headphone and be wowed by it, but that doesn't mean that I don't want to see any other reviews, whether they are short or long, awe-inspiring or merely impressions. If you like something about a certain headphone, I want to know it. If there is something you dislike, I really want to know it. Don't be afraid to voice your own opinions about headphones, regardless of your writing or listening ability. We all signed up here to learn something, and we can't do that without your help.

I put my two cents in, but I'm constantly aware that what I hear and my ability to express that well don't match up, especially when I've read others' words that say so well what I only think (saying after reading, "Yes, that's what I meant"). I'm really lucky in that I live in an area where there are active, generous (and fun) head-fiers with great gear. I get to hear pretty much anything I want whenever I want. I am, however, aware that many people rely on only our words and impressions to make often expensive decisions. I'm hesitant out of respect, and don't want to toss off comments that are ill formed or poorly articulated, which, sadly, many of mine are. Also, I'm aware of my lack of expereince and references as compared to many here. I think everyone has a right to voice their opinion with what they hear, but I'm careful when reading posts where people think something is the best or worst ever, but don't have the listening experience with a wide range of headphones to make such comparisons (I regularly check profiles when judging advice). I know I'm new to this and simply don't want to spout things without sufficient references.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flasken /img/forum/go_quote.gif I disagree. Ofcourse posts are going to be more detailed when they are about something that is entirely new and uncovered on the forum!! The cool part now is that instead of one early adopter doing his best to write a review, you have 100 early adopters all feeding impressions into the same thread, making for MUCH more reliable information. I too don't write reviews like I would in the past, because I get the same sense that you have to write something good to make a new thread and push down the work of those before you - instead I put my impressions in the specific ongoing threads, and I think this is a really good thing. And I just have to stress this, it gives you a much better idea to have many shorter impressions from different people than a single early adopter.

Interesting point.

Quote:

Originally Posted by thrice /img/forum/go_quote.gif Some good comments jp... you warrior poet you! I agree, I think the other issue is a lack of new and exciting headphones. I mean what have we seen recently. The Denons are new and we got the K601 and 701 in 2006.... what other High-end headphones have there been recently. A lot of the new products coming out are amps and that is exciting, but the gains are incremental. But yeah, be nice to the noobs.

And you know what I think about the Denons

People have treated me amazingly well since the minute I showed up here. That's probably the main reason I've stuck around and gotten as interested as I am in this hobby. My first post was asking if I could come to meet. I remember driving down I-95, with a cast on my leg, thinking, "What the h__ am I doing, going to meet a bunch of guys from the internet and listen to headphones! I must be nuts!" Perhaps true. Still, a great group of guys and a wonderful community.

 

[Mastergill]

The problem is: How many times you can tell HD650 is the best headphone in the world?

It's terrible to sound like a broken record years after years. And having some fight or heated discussions can be fun and entertaining, but it's really time consuming in fact, time that is better spent listening to music.

It's true there's a lack of veterans on this site, but this is from the begining. Veterans are listening to speakers, i'm sorry they are much more fun than headphones.

This week-end i'll fire up again a very cool speaker setup after 10 years of being somehow "forced" to listen to headphones and while i managed along the road to get what i think is one of the best headphone setup in the world, i can't wait to go back to speakers. I was tired to have this stuff attached to my head and not being able to share the tunes with some friends...

See you soon for some cool pics...

 

[warubozu]

Haven't been posting much now days mainly because I've been so busy with other things in my life. When I first joined this site, I had a lot of free time and a great amount of interest in all these headphone gear that was new at that time. So much interest and free time on my hands that I could literally stay logged in to site for 3 to 4 hours straight just reading and posting.

Now days with less free time I'd be lucky if I could stay logged in for about and hour a day. Not having the strong urge to continually upgrade has also contributed to me not logging in here as often as I used to.

 

[elrod-tom]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbloudg20 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Seems to me, the number of people who actually know good sound when they hear it, are declining. Also the number of people who know what the hell they are talking about.

I disagree, unless what you mean is relative to the total membership. I would say with certainty that there are MORE members who "know good sound when they hear it" and "know what the hell they are talking about" than in the old days...but as compared to the sheer number of folks who come here, it's smaller in relative size.

That's what happens when one's site becomes as popular as this one has...more folks who are not die-hards check in to learn about this headphone audio madness. Without all those new members, we probably don't end up having things like national meets, podcasts, and sponsorship that will help guarantee that those who choose to do so can post about how Head-Fi has changed until they are doing so in their Depends.

As mbriant has noted so well, the complaints have been with us for a long time, and will continue to be with us. So long as the site continues to be relevant, we'll be around for a lot more of them.

 

[Hi-Finthen]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mbriant /img/forum/go_quote.gif The more things change, the more they stay the same.... April, 2006 http://www.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=175605 March 2004 http://www.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=64449 August 2003 http://www.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=43970 April 2002 - http://www.head-fi.org/forums/showpost.php?p=111779 As you can see, at the time the above post was made more than 5 years ago, Head-fi was less than 10 months old and already there were "Head-fi has changed" posts in existence. The number of visitors online has and always will fluctuate. And since audio is an extremely opinionated subject in the first place, there will always be some who will have negative things to say about the site and/or it's membership. Don't let the occasional negative comment about head-fi or it's membership give you the impression that it's a fact, or that the majority of members think that way ... there are always going to be those who think differently. And especially don't let small pockets of disgruntled members/former members convince you that head-fi is this or that .... they usually have their own, often immature and/or devious agendas for trashing the place. In fact, you'll find the odd one or two will always gravitate to threads like this .... so they can take yet another shot at us. Many of these folks are somehow under the delusion that they or their tiny clique know more about everything than everyone else and that their opinions and their opinions only, are correct. Very often their ongoing criticisms are nothing more than sour grapes over some old, unrelated issue. That's not to say there's not always room for improvement at Head-fi .... but one shouldn't take the chronic complainers at face value. In fact, hear-say, half-truths, misinformation, exaggerations, manipulation, and sometimes even outright lies are more the norm with them. Just as in life, at Head-fi everyone will have their own opinion of "the good old days" ..... depending on when they joined and who the active and/or "colourful" posters were at that time. A guarantee that things will change should be added to death and taxes as a universal constant. Some people can't accept change ... so they leave...or worse, they stay and continuously complain. Others welcome change as a natural part of existence and move forward with it.

Fine points mbriant, and I especially enjoyed reading the various opinions contained in the links...

Now I return back to lurker status while enjoying the fruits of my research

 

[909]

Change is inevitable; and people inevitably will complain about it or complain about those that complain about it or both. It’s really nothing new, here or elsewhere.

There’re so many issues coexisting in this thread it isn’t even funny and it just reinforces the fact that everything and everyone is so dependent on their own particular perspective conditioned by their experience. And one’s perspective is somewhat similar to feelings--it doesn’t matter if it’s accurate or valid since no one can tell you how you‘re feeling or suppose to feel.

Activity numbers, number of visitors online, and anything similar along those lines I say, so what--it isn’t a big deal. Though, I had anticipated after the second international meet the most users ever online would have been broken like had been the case after the first international meet, but I digress.

I don’t know the whole story, but I understand Head-Fi’s origins were derived from Head-Wize. For lack of a better term, most of that old school motley crew were hi-fi headphone junkies before the advent of the iPod, SinglePower, and Ray Samuels Audio just to name a few notables. And many of those old school Head-Fiers were DIY types too. Assumingly they had a very different agenda, outlook and probably still do.

I suppose the majority of new members after say 2003 and onward are drawn to Head-Fi for different reasons, but I bet it has more and more to do with MP3 players and portable headphones, ear buds, or IEM. And at least initially that predominates their posts here, which isn’t necessarily a bad thing.

I think the ratio between experienced, knowledgeable members and newbies has increased in favor of those less experienced. So we now have more posts with a diminished knowledge base and in turn more newbies aren’t as apprehensive to post without attempting to get somewhat educated first because it's much more commonplace.

 

[J-Pak]

I think now more than ever I'm seeing way too many X2, X3, X4 posts, which don't add anything to the discussion.

I'm not exactly a member of "team useful post" but I do try and keep my spam to a minimum.

 

[markl]

Whenever these sorts of threads used to pop up every 6 months or so, I used to chime in to disagree with the "Head-Fi is getting worse" sentiment. But lately, FWIW, I find myself feeling more and more out of step. I definitely participate less.

I know it sounds like I'm beating my usual dead horse (sorry guys), but I see more and more flat-earthers around who don't believe anything makes a difference. They are generally younger newbs with very little experience and a strong incentive to believe that nothing makes a difference because the stuff that actually does is out of their reach.

I think many of the real audiophiles have just gotten tired and left. It started out in the Cables forum as a little virus that ultimately turned cancerous and killed the forum. Now I see it metastasising into the Source section (the recent long thread about the "scientific" blind comparison of high-end and cheap sources was a particularly depressing display of bad information and the new groupthink), and I've even seen it starting to rear its head in the amplifier section.

IMHO, this movement will be the death of the site, which can only thrive if populated by people who actually *like* the stuff we discuss here. I've given up on the Cables section, I don't have time to help refute every ignorant statement of "fact". Why even have a Cables section if all the talk is "hey numb-nuts, everyone knows Cables are all the same" to every inquiry. "OK," sez the newbie, "I guess that must be so, no one else in here is disagreeing". What's left to discuss there? What function is that forum now serving? A few lone voices with some experience being drowned out by flat earthers who've never tried anything other than stock. A newb comes in and the people the forum is supposed to be serving (i.e. people who know that cables are different and want to discuss different makes and brands), are actually the small minority and look to be the kooks the majority make them out to be, they are on the fringe there (in their own forum) after all.

Source forum will be next to die the same death, it's already starting. If the mainstream belief on Head-Fi is that "digital is digital" and all sources sound the same, why bother with a Source forum? What's to discuss if its all bunk? I've been saving for months for (what I hope will be) a killer new source. I always like to share when I get a new toy, now I'm not so sure. I don't want snide comments from the peanut gallery over what a dope I must be for investing in such an expensive piece of snake-oil.

What happens when this crowd moves in and takes over the amp section?

Head-Fi, as far as I can tell, was created to be a home for audio enthusiasts, people who actually love music and audio. I see many new faces and strong voices that seem to have no love for the hobby at all, and seem to prefer arguing and ridiculing instead. This is sad.

I know we can't censor or have a velvet rope to only let certain "approved" people in. I recognize that Head-Fi is the people who show up every day to populate the site. If it's no longer audiophiles, well, I'll have to deal with that or move on.

Head-Fi is still great; I still love it here and enjoy the company of 80% of the people here. I'm not saying the sky is falling, but I am concerned...

 

[boomana]

Quote:

Originally Posted by markl /img/forum/go_quote.gif Source forum will be next to die the same death, it's already starting. If the mainstream belief on Head-Fi is that "digital is digital" and all sources sound the same, why bother with a Source forum? What's to discuss if its all bunk? I've been saving for months for (what I hope will be) a killer new source. I always like to share when I get a new toy, now I'm not so sure. I don't want snide comments from the peanut gallery over what a dope I must be for investing in such an expensive piece of snake-oil.

I want to hear about it. I value your opinions. If it weren't for you and some others here, sharing detailed, reflective impressions, I wouldn't really frequent this site much. I may stop in and gab in this forum, but much of my head-fi time is spent reading up on things. I don't respond in most gear threads because I don't yet know much, especially about cables and sources, but I want to know, and that's the point. Maybe the big mouth nay-sayers seem to be taking over, but I suspect that there's many like me who know enough to dismiss their commentary, but don't yet know enough to participate in any meaningful way. We're silent, but present.

 

[plainsong]

I agree. Sometimes I think about doing a big huge review.. I've done a grand total of one of those for another site, but everytime I get around to it, I think of the aggro I'll get from what you call flat-earthers. I get strange pms from kids assuming I'll know how their dt990s will sound out of their sb live card. And why via pm? Because it's the only place you can ask anymore.

Then in the members lounge we have people who just want to argue a point they feel nothing about. You can tell when you read it, they don't feel strongly one way or the other, it's just internet boxing. Now I'm not talking about people who do feel passionately enough about something to defend or refute it, you can tell in the wording of the post, it's not difficult. Now those types of Internet Males are a minority, but they are a loud obnoxious one, and they're the same guys who say source makes no difference, amp makes no difference, cables make no difference. What about headphones. Do those make a difference?

And in the portables forum, there's iHaters club. This probably won't get read, but I'm not referring to the reasonable person who says. I don't like this device, but do like this one, here's why. No, I mean just blindly hating a source having limited experience with it, just because it's popular. Back in my lurking days, that attitude was flamed out the door.

It's an uphill battle and I have a setup now such that I can't tell one component from the other in the chain, and that's good enough for me. There's no point in defeinding it to the person who would insist his pc's cdrom drive is just as good. I never thought I'd move on from here, that the place would keep drawing me back, but I find myself posting less and less, and not being bothered really about what's going on at head-fi.

I have no problem welcoming youngsters to the boards, but when I was 15 on up, I was capable of intelligent discourse, as are many of our young members. I don't want to paint them all with the same brush. It's that Internet Male type, the flatearthers that I have no time for. Any chance they'll get bored and move on, or grow some ears? Or is it more of a turf war on the internet thing?

Edit - case in point, in the members lounge of head-fi, some rear end in a top hat decides to try to spoil the HP book for everyone. Why? This isn't SomethingAwful, it's not comedy gold, it's just an idiot attention whore wanting attention and with no social skills whatsoever. It's symbolic of who is taking the forum downhill.

Quote:

Originally Posted by markl /img/forum/go_quote.gif Whenever these sorts of threads used to pop up every 6 months or so, I used to chime in to disagree with the "Head-Fi is getting worse" sentiment. But lately, FWIW, I find myself feeling more and more out of step. I definitely participate less. I know it sounds like I'm beating my usual dead horse (sorry guys), but I see more and more flat-earthers around who don't believe anything makes a difference. They are generally younger newbs with very little experience and a strong incentive to believe that nothing makes a difference because the stuff that actually does is out of their reach. I think many of the real audiophiles have just gotten tired and left. It started out in the Cables forum as a little virus that ultimately turned cancerous and killed the forum. Now I see it metastasising into the Source section (the recent long thread about the "scientific" blind comparison of high-end and cheap sources was a particularly depressing display of bad information and the new groupthink), and I've even seen it starting to rear its head in the amplifier section. IMHO, this movement will be the death of the site, which can only thrive if populated by people who actually *like* the stuff we discuss here. I've given up on the Cables section, I don't have time to help refute every ignorant statement of "fact". Why even have a Cables section if all the talk is "hey numb-nuts, everyone knows Cables are all the same" to every inquiry. "OK," sez the newbie, "I guess that must be so, no one else in here is disagreeing". What's left to discuss there? What function is that forum now serving? A few lone voices with some experience being drowned out by flat earthers who've never tried anything other than stock. A newb comes in and the people the forum is supposed to be serving (i.e. people who know that cables are different and want to discuss different makes and brands), are actually the small minority and look to be the kooks the majority make them out to be, they are on the fringe there (in their own forum) after all. Source forum will be next to die the same death, it's already starting. If the mainstream belief on Head-Fi is that "digital is digital" and all sources sound the same, why bother with a Source forum? What's to discuss if its all bunk? I've been saving for months for (what I hope will be) a killer new source. I always like to share when I get a new toy, now I'm not so sure. I don't want snide comments from the peanut gallery over what a dope I must be for investing in such an expensive piece of snake-oil. What happens when this crowd moves in and takes over the amp section? Head-Fi, as far as I can tell, was created to be a home for audio enthusiasts, people who actually love music and audio. I see many new faces and strong voices that seem to have no love for the hobby at all, and seem to prefer arguing and ridiculing instead. This is sad. I know we can't censor or have a velvet rope to only let certain "approved" people in. I recognize that Head-Fi is the people who show up every day to populate the site. If it's no longer audiophiles, well, I'll have to deal with that or move on. Head-Fi is still great; I still love it here and enjoy the company of 80% of the people here. I'm not saying the sky is falling, but I am concerned...

 

[purk]

markl,

I feel the same way. I miss the headfi of late 2003 the most when most of original headfiers were still here. I was learning so much and enjoyed many excellent impression and reviews. I can't agree with you more on cable, and especially the source forum. Seem like a good digital redbook and SACD players are valued less and less these days. I still can't believe that no one has yet to pick up a used SACDmods Sony 9100ES for an excellent price. Also, I'm not a big fan of how the amps forum is progressing as many of them are seriously overpriced.