[daveemac]

Hello. I've been reading and researching here for the last several days and now have a specific enough question that I want to jump in.

First, some quick history. I'm a professional bassist, mostly jazz (upright and electric).
I've had grado 60s for a couple years now and have gotten much enjoyment out of them. Now I'm ready to spend more for something really good for travel use (I'll be on the road for two months, maybe more, all by car).

I have a JMT amp on order. Current sources are D-25s and panasonic sl-235.

I was planning on moving up the grado chain so I went and heard all the SRs and RSs, straight out of a good cdp head jack. Quite impressed, but finding things a bit scratchy, except maybe the RSs. I tried the senn 580s at good guys through a decent cdp head jack. I know this wasn't really a fair test, but frankly what I heard wasn't for me at all. The bass was so tubby and slow that I couldn't stand it. Vocals sure were creamy, though.

I want it all of course: clarity, creaminess, quick tight full accurate bass, gobs of detail without any harshness...

I definitely prefer the "front row" sound to the "middle of the hall" sound. I am especially interested in PRAT (ie, Pace, Rhythm, Accuracy, and Timing). I listen very closely to everything, but especially to bass and I will be using these headphones part of the time to learn bass parts (and other parts) off of cds for the purpose of transcribing and learning.

It's this last desire that made my ears perk up when I read about the stax sr001s here and all the compliments to their bass quickness. However, I have also gotten very excited reading about the ety 4p/4s. Here is where my specific question comes in.

I haven't seen the bass of the two phones compared directly yet.

JoeLongwood, you said in one thread that after hearing the SR001s you'd decided that electrostats were definitely the way you wanted to go, but then in another thread you said that they couldn't compare to the etys for detail and that the sr001 would be taking a backseat to the etys. I've been enjoying your posts and respect your opinion. What says you?


Finally, I'm willing to spend up to $500 (more if I had to, I guess), but of course would rather spend less. I figure the ety4P is a given at SOME point (just for airline travel without an amp), but for my long trip and home use I'm not sure which way to go. My next step is to hear the grados and senns with the JMT, but it might not be here for a couple more weeks, and I'd like to buy something before then. Any recommendations or suggestions are most welcome.

Dave

 

[TimSchirmer]

I'll sell ya my ER-6's if you want

. Seriously though, I am looking for new portable cans myself, and im leaning toward the stax SRM-001's. I still am waiting for an opportunity to compare them to ety's though.

 

[joelongwood]

Quote:

JoeLongwood, you said in one thread that after hearing the SR001s you'd decided that electrostats were definitely the way you wanted to go, but then in another thread you said that they couldn't compare to the etys for detail and that the sr001 would be taking a backseat to the etys. I've been enjoying your posts and respect your opinion. What says you?

Hi Dave, and welcome to Head-Fi. I'm glad you used the word "opinion," because that's all any of this stuff is. After almost 1500 posts, I have a hard time remembering what I said, so I'll give you my up- to-date opinion on these two 'phones. And remember to take into account the fact that my ears, at age 54, ain't what they used to be, although I think I still hear pretty well. I'm not consciously aware of any hearing loss (although my wife would disagree

).

The Etys have several advantages, for me, over the Stax portable. First, they are much more isolating, and this allows me to get completely lost in the music. The complete absence of any outside noise contributes mightily to the listening experience. Also, the Etys have a more extended top end, which allows for more, and finer, detail in the music. The midrange is wonderful as well, but in direct comparison to the Stax, it can a be a bit thin at times. This may have more to do with source material, though, as Etys are generally regarded by many as the most accurate and neutral 'phones out there. The bass on the Etys is all there, but as I'm sure you've read, it is bass you can hear, not feel. There is a learning curve to enjoying Ety bass.....some people never seem to appreciate this type of bass.

As for the SRM-001 MK IIs, I think that Stax may have consciously made a portable headphone that rolls off the high end a bit. Maybe this was done to compensate for the often poor source material available for portable situations? But for whatever reason, the highs are definitely reduced. But the midrange is where these little things really shine. The detail in that range is stunning. One listen to guitar, piano, or cymbals, and all other 'phones will sound somehow deficient. The quickness of these 'phones is astounding, as is the ability to convey the ambience of the recording venue. The speed at which the transients start and stop, and then decay in the studio is amazing.

Now for the bass......the Stax bass is all there, and it is definitely the type of bass that people are more accustomed to. It is punchy, deep, and well-controlled. As a result, it's very easy to follow the bass line, which is what you indicated you have an interest in.

To sum it all up, I would say that, if you can get past the high-end roll off of the Stax (and some people can't), then, for your purposes, these might be better, if only because of the more common bass presentation. On the other hand, the Etys are gonna give you what's on the recording, nothing more, nothing less. And then, there's the Grados. To my ears, these have a fuller, richer sound that is very different from either the Stax or the Etys. Everything is larger, and there's more of it. But they do sound a bit sluggish in comparison to either the Stax or the Etys.
My advice: Get all three.

 

[Gluegun]

Oohh! Oooh!!

Get ER4S, the fixup cable, and custom earmolds...

That's the same price as the Stax, right?

(I don't have Ety's or Stax....)

 

[joelongwood]

Quote:

Originally posted by Gluegun Oohh! Oooh!! Get ER4S, the fixup cable, and custom earmolds... That's the same price as the Stax, right? (I don't have Ety's or Stax....)

Gluey,
While the list price of the Stax is around $400, they can be obtained for $305 delivered. That's the ER4 and the fixup cable.........no custom earmolds.

 

[Gluegun]

Oh. Hmph..

Well, than, yea.

Or something...

So, to keep this post remotely on-topic, is the ER4 with the 50 ohm fixup cable REALLY better than the ER4P with the 4P>4S cable? Fixup.net says that you get the best sound with the 50 ohm cable.... does anyone know anything about that?

 

[daveemac]

joelongwood:
Thanks for the in depth reply. Much good information.

Get all three, huh? Gee, I hadn't thought of that...

Actually, I am considering seriously getting TWO pair. One would seemingly have to be the ety4 (for airplane and other high isolation situations), but then I have to decide between a nice grado or the stax or...???

Other questions: do any stores actually carry the SR001, or do you just have to order them blind? I've never seen them at any high-end shops here in san francisco.
Is the 001 the only stax which is really portable?

Thanks again.

 

[joelongwood]

Quote:

Other questions: do any stores actually carry the SR001, or do you just have to order them blind? I've never seen them at any high-end shops here in san francisco. Is the 001 the only stax which is really portable?

I don't know of any stores that carry them, but you could order them from Headroom, along with the Grados. You have a 30 day trial period to see which one you prefer. You would only be out the shipping costs.

 

[JMT]

Quote:

Is the 001 the only stax which is really portable?

The SRM-001 is the only Stax that is even remotely portable, as far as I know. The rest of the Stax lineup is for home use.
Quote:

Other questions: do any stores actually carry the SR001, or do you just have to order them blind?

One of the things that you learn about this hobby/addiction is that it is a miniscule part of the overall audio market. Rarely will retail stores devote much shelfspace to a product that is costly and has about a 1% market share. This is one of the things that makes this place so special. You come here, ask questions. We answer to the best of our knowledge and experience. Then you make a quasi-educated "blind" decision.

 

[Voyager]

JMT, I think Kevin Gilmore made a portable Omega II system that he uses with a Sony DE-J01. Aside from that, the SRM-001 is pretty much it for portable electrostatics.

 

[beni]

Quote:

Originally posted by Gluegun Oh. Hmph.. Well, than, yea. Or something... So, to keep this post remotely on-topic, is the ER4 with the 50 ohm fixup cable REALLY better than the ER4P with the 4P>4S cable? Fixup.net says that you get the best sound with the 50 ohm cable.... does anyone know anything about that?

I haven't ever tried a 4P or 4P->4S, but I did move from a 4S to the fixup cable (D25S->Old Cosmic->Etys) and I like it a lot, although I really wish the fixup cable were a couple of feet longer. The effect I notice most is a midrange that's brought out slightly compared to the stock cable, and the upper bass is a little more noticeable too but not at the expense of clarity of lower bass. The one big disappointment I had is that the microphonic issues aren't much better for me. The section of the cable between the earphones and the point where the cords join together is just as microphonic as the regular cord, and that seems to be where most of the microphonic noise comes from when I listen (from the cord rubbing against my face). I mostly listen when I'm in bed though, so not moving is not really a problem. I would highly recommend the cable (and an extension cord).

 

[beni]

Oh...I think I got the 100ohm cable though.

 

[DanG]

Welcome to Head-Fi, Dave!

Re: headphones... sound to me like the portable headphones for you are the Ety ER-4S, and the at-home headphones the Alessandro-Grado Music Series Pro (MSP). What I loved about the MSP was that the bass was very present but very tight as well -- it just felt accurate. The whole sound was very clean, I'd say -- soundstage wasn't the most amazing out of any headphone (definitely not comparable to Sennheiser HD600 or HD580), but it was definitely the front-row feeling. I really liked that with small-group jazz, chamber music, and solo music. For orchestral, I'd have to say HD600 was the best.

Etymotic ER-4S is what I'm listening to right now as my HD600s, after having been repaired to work with Cardas cable (yay!) are in the mail back to me. The Eties don't have as much thumping felt bass as circum- or supra-aural headphones, but it is definitely present and very accurate... sounds great with my jazz. I used to use them with a JMT-build CHA47 and it was great... right now I'm listening to them with my Melos and it sounds just fantastic.

I'd say you should go with the ER-4S (don't know what this replacement cable is? Guess I haven't been following that thread...). If you feel like spending the money later on, go for the Alessandro if you find one used online -- it should go for between $400 and $425. Good luck!

 

[setmenu]

Hi All
I like my Stax 001s but the rolled off top does bug a bit.
I use Beyer DT931s for most of my portable listening but as the
weather warms the beyers have to come off[they keep the ears
warm in the cold!]and on go the Staxs and out goes the top end

but still I adjust to the sound after a while and love their good
points.
I am not sure whether it is the amp or phones[suspect amp].

Stax tell me they plan to keep making the 001 model for about
20 more months then plan to introduce a new model,they will give
no further details.
So... lets hope for that glorious top end their big brothers can
exhibit....

Setmenu

Team flat something

 

[arnett]

how does the stax 001 fit into your ear as compared to an ety?

edit: is the stax more like a traditional earbud or more like the 'in your ear' ety-type?