[dhwilkin]

Quote:

kelly said... Why didn't you make it to one of the World of Headroom stops?

According to his profile, Spain is a little far away from the tour stops.

 

[markl]

"He said his amp was modded. Does anyone know what these mods are?? For all we know he gutted a Max and put it in there. "

No, he said his speaker outputs (not at all the same as headphone output) were tweaked on a mid-to-lo-fi Pioneer amp of dubious vintage. I doubt very much that the headphone jack on this budget/cheapie component is any good. Just my opinion, but I feel that his current headphone amp is THE argument for a dedicated, quality dedicated headphone amp unit that so many of us here own...

"And all those flaming him for his rig, leave the guy alone. If he is happy with it, what do you care? He's not telling you that his rig blows a Blockhead away?!?!"

Being "happy" with a certain rig is a FAR CRY from that rig being of high quality. If you have never heard a good rig, how can you judge accurately? From what I've read, at least, it sounds that Ricky is satisfied with very low-quality gear, and his list of the gear he actually owns, bears out this supposition.

Again, he is far better off upgrading his basic components before upgrading cables.

markl

 

[kelly]

Spain, eh?

Ok, first you go ask the Queen for money, see. You tell her that there may be audible differences between cables. She may not believe you at first but she'll listen more than the Queen of Portugal did.

Anyway, um, yeah, we all pretty much agree your system is crap even if some of us won't say it because we haven't explicitly heard it. So, sorry. Build a headphone amp or talk to JMT and call us back later.

 

[Nezer]

While I tend to agree that he should probably upgrade his gear I can't say for sure having never heard it.

But, I don't think Ricky is arguing that all amps sound the same.

I do hear your point that perhaps his equipment isn't capable of revealing cable differences but, again, one can't make that type of statement without actually hearing the rig.

I still feel the difference between the stock HD580 cable and the Cardas is enough to make him see the light on his equipment.

 

[Ricky]

I think I don't have an easy access to the Cardas or Clou replacement cable. I guess I'd have to buy them on Internet, but I'm not doing it because I want to be able to return the cables back, and buying them on internet I believe can be a bit risky for returns.

I'll see what cables they have at the store I'm going, and I'll ask wether there can be any problems for returning them, before actually buying them.

I'm not sure if I'll be able to buy the cables tomorrow, as I'm a bit short on money and busy at this time (I'm buying a new house). However, if not tomorrow, I'll try in a few days.

About my equipment:

The Denon DCD 2560 is some years sold. However, it has 4 20 bit DA converters and 16x oversampling. It costed around 800$ when we bought it.

I consider my Audiophile 2496 soundcard a good quality source, I guess you will not agree, but you still have given me no valid reasons to think otherwise.

As headphone amplifier I use a Pioneer 55W integrated amplifier, and I use its speaker outputs as headphone outputs. I've just built a voltage divider to suit the output levels to headphone levels. It has tone/loudness control bypass. I thing it is quite good quality. I measured its output distortion and it is below 0.003 % THD, a pretty good value.

I think it would not have much to envy to something like a META42 amp, the difference is that it is not portable.

 

[Ricky]

A couple of "interesting" links:

http://www.ethanwiner.com/myths.html

Before talking bad about the author, please take a look at his web page and learn a little bit more about him.


http://sound.westhost.com/cables-p3.htm#interconnects

See also the introduction.

 

[dhwilkin]

Quote:

Ricky said... I think I don't have an easy access to the Cardas or Clou replacement cable. I guess I'd have to buy them on Internet, but I'm not doing it because I want to be able to return the cables back, and buying them on internet I believe can be a bit risky for returns.

Not as long as you buy the Clou or Cardas from Headroom, which offers a 30-day trial period. Returns are accepted w/ no questions asked, full refund. I think you'd be hard pressed to find a better company for this specific purpose. A very large number of people from this forum, including me, have done business w/ Headroom and consider them a very good business. Give them a call.
Quote:

Ricky said... I consider my Audiophile 2496 soundcard a good quality source, I guess you will not agree, but you still have given me no valid reasons to think otherwise.

I have an Audiophile 2496. It is decent, but I would consider it entry-level, through subjective listening of course.

 

[andrzejpw]

Its an interesting read, although I disagree with some points.

`

 

[Tim D]

If it is just a simple voltage divider using some resistors, you have higher output impedance. This is something Senns hate...or should I say something I absolutely hate to hear with Senns.

Quote:

I think it would not have much to envy to something like a META42 amp, the difference is that it is not portable.

You like to make many assumptions...this line of thinking is not really far from the placebo affect you claim others are affected by.

You believe that an audiofool will buy an expensive cable, and immediately start believing it to sound better.

I'm starting to believe you will measure your current system with simple tests in order to start believing that nothing else can be that much better.

I'd say like most people here, I'm at neither extreme.

Saying your speaker to headphone adapter has nothing to envy from a very good dedicated headphone amp again shows your lack of experience. Perhaps it is easier to hold these beliefs because your access to other equipment is limited. But if your DIY skills and electronics knowledge is good enough that you believe your voltage divider is good enough maybe you should try your hands on a META42.

But maybe you would need someone to loop a recording through the META42 a few times and record it on the computer before you consider it an improvement or not.

 

[Ricky]

Quote:

Originally posted by Tim D If it is just a simple voltage divider using some resistors, you have higher output impedance. This is something Senns hate...or should I say something I absolutely hate to hear with Senns.

The voltage divider has been designed so that including its effects, the output impedance is around 11 Ohm. I built it to make suitable to drive low impedance headphones such as the Sony MDR-7506

By the way, high impedance Senns are much less affected from high impedance outputs, because they are high impedance too. Ask anybody who knows (Tangent?...)


Quote:

You like to make many assumptions...this line of thinking is not really far from the placebo affect you claim others are affected by.

Please tell me what assumptions I make concerning my audio setup that other people don't.

Quote:

I'm starting to believe you will measure your current system with simple tests in order to start believing that nothing else can be that much better.

I have done already so, using standard audio tests, with the help of a high resolution FFT software analyzer and my Audiophile 2496, knowing also what are the limits that this equipment imposes.

Quote:

Saying your speaker to headphone adapter has nothing to envy from a very good dedicated headphone amp again shows your lack of experience.

How do you know? You have not heard my amp. Just because the META42 is DIY and mine is not?

Quote:

But if your DIY skills and electronics knowledge is good enough that you believe your voltage divider is good enough maybe you should try your hands on a META42.

I believe it is good enough, as I have explained. If I could have easy access to a META42, I would try it.

Quote:

But maybe you would need someone to loop a recording through the META42 a few times and record it on the computer before you consider it an improvement or not.

We could do this with the META42 and trough my amp, and see if there are significant differences.

 

[kelly]

Ricky

Tangent's site has very detailed information on how to order parts for and build the META42 amp. It's actually quite an impressive website.
http://tangentsoft.net/audio/meta42/

The people on the DIY section here at HeadFi and at HeadWize also seem very helpful.

I've decided to attempt to build a CMOY first and then move on to the META42 pending successful completion of that project.

This could be a good exercise for you and might make you some friends, which you seem in need of perhaps even moreso than I.

 

[Tim D]

There is a large impedance rise in frequency response for Senns...just as there are for some Beyers. You can see some measurements at the Headroom page. This headphone will have altered frequency response as well as other detrimental affects for not having the lowest output impedance possible and high damping factor. Perhaps if the impedance rating on the Senns were even across the board there would be very little effect...but that is not the case.

Yes because the headphone impedance is high, means that a zero output impedance is that much better IMO (higher damping ratio) for the Senns. There is some muddiness and midbass humps that Senns take on with lesser amps...especially of poorer damping.

Subjectively I find the Senns to not sound very transparent with lesser amps.

I have not heard your amp, but you have not heard the META42 to make any claims. I am not making any claims about your amp only to state common drawbacks to voltage dividers that makes it a little presumptious to think that a fully dedicated and fleshed out DIY amp as the META42 would be comparable.

 

[Ricky]

Quote:

Originally posted by Tim D There is a large impedance rise in frequency response for Senns...This headphone will have altered frequency response as well as other detrimental affects for not having the lowest output impedance possible and high damping factor. Perhaps if the impedance rating on the Senns were even across the board there would be very little effect...but that is not the case. Yes because the headphone impedance is high, means that a zero output impedance is that much better IMO (higher damping ratio) for the Senns. There is some muddiness and midbass humps that Senns take on with lesser amps...especially of poorer damping.

That's wrong. Sorry to repeat again, but the higher the impedance of a headphone, the lesser necessity of a low output impedance, to have a high damping factor. For a high damping factor, you need a very low output impedance on a low impedance load. On a high impedance load, you don't need a so low output impedance.

damping factor=load impedance/source impedance

The higher the impedance of the headphones, the easier to achieve a high damping factor, that is, the higher the output impedance can be still maintainig a high damping factor. Check your electronics!

With my amp and the Senns 580, the damping factor is of 300/11 = 27.3

For a low impedance headphone, such as the Sony 7506, the damping factor would be of 63/11=5.7

 

[kelly]

In my, and many others, experience, the Sennheiser HD580 and HD600 perform best with a 0ohm output impedance. The designer of these two headphones confirmed that this was the intent in the development of the headphone when Jan Meier went to the Sennheiser factory to visit. You can search for that thread, if you like.

 

[fiddler]

Quote:

By the way, high impedance Senns are much less affected from high impedance outputs, because they are high impedance too. Ask anybody who knows (Tangent?...)

I know this is wrong. I've a Corda HA-1 with two headphone jacks, one with low output impedance (0 ohms), one with high output impedance (120 ohms). My Senn 600 becomes muddy and dull out of the high impedance jack. As Kelly said, the designer of this amp (Jan Meier) met with the people from Sennheiser who confirmed that the HD580/600 were designed to sound best at a low output impedance.