NOS DAC better than Nobsound TDA1387??

[]eep]

I live in OZ so I considered it, but 2 grand is steep for what it is. I'd be paying for the exoticism of the chip.
Performance? Price to performance? Who knows? I'm not game enough to find out.

Here's a review by Passion for Sound, not the same chip though.

I'd say you're not paying for the fame of the chip but for the craft and expertise of the engineer.

To burst your bubble...
Over 15 years ago I did a lot of modifying Chinese gear when they were considered 'curious' or 'rubbish'. To some elitists (mainly Americans) it still is. I shared my findings with other 'tweakers' (computer nerds with passion for audio) on a local forum. I organised a lot of meet-ups with 'bring your gear and let's compare'. I learned a lot that way. The MHZS CD33 was a hot model with a tubed dac. I still have it (CD drive broke first of course).
Then I came across a 4xTDA1543 dac, started modifying it, and stuck with it. I sold about 15 of them. I still use it sometimes. Its special due to its directness, compared to my Denafrips Ares II.
One of my mates brought a special dac he was working on. A Philips TDA1541 Crown with a tube output stage. It sounded very musical and rounded. But the rub of it was: it needs an amplifying output stage. It doesn't produce enough power ( V or I ) to go without. And a lot of information gets lost there. Compared to the puny, cheap tda1543 that produces enough V on its own. So while the chip is awesome, it all depends on the output stage, and no matter how good, it loses out to other models that are directly linked to your amp.

PS: the Muse 4x tda1543 was $45 initially. Close to the price of the even cheaper Nobsound in the topic title. The Kompakt is not in this budget class at all.

You can still buy the Teradak though. It's a 8x TDA1543 for around $400 on AliExpress. Just change the output caps.

 

[B Manoj Kumar]

@]eep Thank you for sharing your thoughts and inputs, is there a DIY Board available for balanced discrete DAC design with 4
x TDA1541A DAC chips? Please let me know
Thank you,
Manoj

 

[ExTubeGamer]

Today my beloved AD1852 DAC started sounding different. It sounded much better. It was constantly on for more then 48 hours.

Is this burn-in? I like my new DAC.

 

[Elegiac]

Here's a review by Passion for Sound, not the same chip though.

I'd say you're not paying for the fame of the chip but for the craft and expertise of the engineer.

To burst your bubble...
Over 15 years ago I did a lot of modifying Chinese gear when they were considered 'curious' or 'rubbish'. To some elitists (mainly Americans) it still is. I shared my findings with other 'tweakers' (computer nerds with passion for audio) on a local forum. I organised a lot of meet-ups with 'bring your gear and let's compare'. I learned a lot that way. The MHZS CD33 was a hot model with a tubed dac. I still have it (CD drive broke first of course).
Then I came across a 4xTDA1543 dac, started modifying it, and stuck with it. I sold about 15 of them. I still use it sometimes. Its special due to its directness, compared to my Denafrips Ares II.
One of my mates brought a special dac he was working on. A Philips TDA1541 Crown with a tube output stage. It sounded very musical and rounded. But the rub of it was: it needs an amplifying output stage. It doesn't produce enough power ( V or I ) to go without. And a lot of information gets lost there. Compared to the puny, cheap tda1543 that produces enough V on its own. So while the chip is awesome, it all depends on the output stage, and no matter how good, it loses out to other models that are directly linked to your amp.

PS: the Muse 4x tda1543 was $45 initially. Close to the price of the even cheaper Nobsound in the topic title. The Kompakt is not in this budget class at all.

You can still buy the Teradak though. It's a 8x TDA1543 for around $400 on AliExpress. Just change the output caps.

But will it outperform the Geshelli J2S 4499 that I ended up ordering? Will it be $1200 better? Even the AKM4493 version of the same Giesler Kompact DAC is about $1000 less. That's what I meant by paying for the chip.
And if you can weed out the quality chinese designs on Aliexpress, and make a nice TDA dac that way, more power to anyone. The chip has some strange old-school allure to me. That or an old Burr Brown DAC.

 

[]eep]

@]eep Thank you for sharing your thoughts and inputs, is there a DIY Board available for balanced discrete DAC design with 4
x TDA1541A DAC chips? Please let me know
Thank you,
Manoj

I don't think so. Maybe there is, but the 1543 was a 'budget' ic where the 1541 was a premium chip. The 1543 is cheap, I bought several for $2 a piece. The TDA1541 is $100. Do the math.
The idea behind paralleling a few TDA1543 is that the downside of mass-produced chips is the reduced accuracy; spread in quality. By parallelling you even out the errors, which enhances bit depth (lsb accuracy).

If you are interested there's enough to find on modifying 4x TDA1543 DAC's on this forum. Also the Teradak 8x and 16x. The trick is to remove the analog output filter (2 small caps to ground for 1st order 20kHz low pass) and upgrade the 10uF output caps or simply remove them ( beware, you'll get 3V offset on your output but most amps don't care since they also have input caps).

 

[]eep]

But will it outperform the Geshelli J2S 4499 that I ended up ordering? Will it be $1200 better? Even the AKM4493 version of the same Giesler Kompact DAC is about $1000 less. That's what I meant by paying for the chip.
And if you can weed out the quality chinese designs on Aliexpress, and make a nice TDA dac that way, more power to anyone. The chip has some strange old-school allure to me. That or an old Burr Brown DAC.

If you manufacture something, in general you need to charge 5x the parts cost. Two $100 chips therefore need to cost the customer Erm... 5 times 2 times $100 is, Erm... Darn. Math is hard...

Seriously, the AKM4499Ex is about the best sigma delta chip there is. Geshelli are doing a hell of a job. I think it is more modern and will perform better. If you ever heard DSD native on a good dac you'll be convinced. That's why I bought the modern discrete Denafrips. That said, I would say it's a matter of preference where the geshelli probably sounds a bit better.

In all honesty, I don't care about nostalgia. It's most likely rose colored memories of old. I do cate however for simple things doing things right. If you hear my 1950's mono records on my turntable you'll wonder why they ever moved to stereo.

 

[ExTubeGamer]

This DAC that I own keeps on getting better. The first twenty hours of playback did not change much but now it goes off the rails. It is amazing.

No reasons to upgrade from this device. Too bad I do not have the space to keep two of these devices around. My other DAC is a PCM1794 and is mainly used for gaming.

 

[]eep]

By coincidence: this video was just posted of a new DAC; the Audial S5. It is also a TDA1541A dac and also similarly priced at GBP2150. Not a full review and not even burned in, but he's very positive about it.
I would like to mention that is is full oc premium parts and is very well executed. You can get it with either output caps, or toroidal output transformers. That means besides limited bandwidth (at the extreme audio bandwidth limits) no coloring of the sound by caps.

 

[sajunky]

You can get it with either output caps, or toroidal output transformers.

I wonder why they don't electronically shift DC level? Another amateur project.

BTW, output transformer is not a solution for DC on the output, DC should be removed before the transformer, otherwise transformer distort sound.

 

[]eep]

I wonder why they don't electronically shift DC level? Another amateur project.

BTW, output transformer is not a solution for DC on the output, DC should be removed before the transformer, otherwise transformer distort sound.

Yes, with AC that's a problem (hum). But DC can't create a magnetic field. It's been done before and it's a viable solution. Only expensive due to the heavy Transformers.

I was about to try it out. Only I'm not very productive ATM. I tried a 2:1 transformer on my 4xTDA1543 dac, only I made a stupid mistake (output resistor shorted by the primary coil doesn't work, duh). I'm more into vinyl lately

 

[sajunky]

@]eep. Believe me, DC bias in the transformer deteriorate sound. Try it. I can contact you with developer who says the same. Large cores are also polarised by DC bias, so transformer is not a solution for removing DC from the output. But transformers are good for filtering HF, it is why there are used.

If a designer offers transformer as an alternative for a capacitor, I know for sure he is doing it wrong.

 

[matts19]

The thing I love most about these 90's chips is their "black background".. I don't mean to say rolled of highs or lack of noise. I mean it as the opposite of "bright" timbre as in a Topping DAC. The measurements cannot differentiate between them. They say R2R in general offers this sort of "blackness" to the music. But Denafrips Ares 2 (now called Enyo) unfortunately did not get as black as these 90's DACs for my liking. On the other hand Audio-GD R2R-11 OG really gives me that pitch black timbre and thus my ears preferred it over Enyo despite latter outperforming on details and soundstage. BTW being R2R I wonder RU6 would compare, whether it would be more like Enyo or R2R-11 OG. It turns up on sale from time to time and currently sells for $120 on Classifieds.

 

[]eep]

The thing I love most about these 90's chips is their "black background".. I don't mean to say rolled of highs or lack of noise. I mean it as the opposite of "bright" timbre as in a Topping DAC. The measurements cannot differentiate between them. They say R2R in general offers this sort of "blackness" to the music. But Denafrips Ares 2 (now called Enyo) unfortunately did not get as black as these 90's DACs for my liking. On the other hand Audio-GD R2R-11 OG really gives me that pitch black timbre and thus my ears preferred it over Enyo despite latter outperforming on details and soundstage. BTW being R2R I wonder RU6 would compare, whether it would be more like Enyo or R2R-11 OG. It turns up on sale from time to time and currently sells for $120 on Classifieds.

I wonder... That 'blackness' you refer to is the lack of halo, cloud of stardust around sources. I find that to be particularly good on my Ares II (old firmware 1.0). I think that is the pre-ringing effect of Sigma delta DAC's. It's the quietness of things that should not be there. My unfiltered NOS DAC's have no roll-off but have a sense of immediacy, like my vinyl setup. There's only real detail. Or to be more precise, better resolving power.

 

[ExTubeGamer]

The thing I love most about these 90's chips is their "black background".. I don't mean to say rolled of highs or lack of noise. I mean it as the opposite of "bright" timbre as in a Topping DAC. The measurements cannot differentiate between them. They say R2R in general offers this sort of "blackness" to the music. But Denafrips Ares 2 (now called Enyo) unfortunately did not get as black as these 90's DACs for my liking. On the other hand Audio-GD R2R-11 OG really gives me that pitch black timbre and thus my ears preferred it over Enyo despite latter outperforming on details and soundstage. BTW being R2R I wonder RU6 would compare, whether it would be more like Enyo or R2R-11 OG. It turns up on sale from time to time and currently sells for $120 on Classifieds.

My RU6 sounds really laid back but it can in now way compete with my AD1852 DAC. This chip has such raw resolving power that it outclasses the RU6 in every metric but is maybe a little less laid back. I can basically sell my RU6 after getting this new DAC and putting a new OPamp in it.

 

[matts19]

My RU6 sounds really laid back but it can in now way compete with my AD1852 DAC. This chip has such raw resolving power that it outclasses the RU6 in every metric but is maybe a little less laid back. I can basically sell my RU6 after getting this new DAC and putting a new OPamp in it.

I just purchased RU6 earlier today that was on sale on Classifieds. I'll share my findings against Audio-GD R2R-11... AD1852 must be good - I currently own MHDT Atlantis DAC w/ AD1862 which I like very much. I'd expect AD1852 to be very similar!