[proglife]

Quote:

Originally Posted by skyline889 When dealing with cables we are talking about relatively miniscule differences, differences that a lot of people can't even hear.

This is not said enough.

I think anytime someone talks about audio they need to qualify their statements better.

If you walk into a room and someone had changed your speakers on you, you'd know it (pretending speakers were invisible).

If you walk into a room and someone had changed any cable in your system, I don't think you'd know it.

 

[tourmaline]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azure You need to organize European meet or something. Seriously, you're like the only person on this forum that owns/has heard this ridiculously expensive cable, and all you do is praise it like it's the holy grail. It's pointless in the end, and you just end up coming off as an incredulous Valhalla fanatic. Find some way to arrange a mini-meet or something with other head-fiers in your general area, try to arrange a Europe meet, or come to the 2007 international meet. Lack of funds shouldn't be an excuse considering how much you blow on your gear.

I also have reference series cables and yes, they sound much better then any cable before.

I really wasn't expecting such a big difference, but it did.

 

[tourmaline]

Quote:

Originally Posted by skyline889 Before my father gave up audio and got in to woodworking, he used to have Nordost SPM reference interconnects in his system, they were good but they didn't completely alter the system as Patrick states. Increased clarity and resolution and even a touch of sybillance were introduced by the interconnects, but they weren't dramatic. There's a big difference between a car like the Porsche Carera, Aston Martin V8, BMW M6, Dodge Viper, Honda/Acura NSX, Noble M12, etc and a Honda Civic coupe. By his reasoning and by your metaphor, it would be like me saying; if I stick an HKS Mega-flow intake on a Honda Civic or if I put some VP110 in a Civic's tank, improving the sources of intake of the engine, it'll outpace a Honda NSX. It just is not physically possible. When dealing with cables we are talking about relatively miniscule differences, differences that a lot of people can't even hear. I guarantee you that even someone who isn't a car enthusiast can tell the difference in performance between a Porsche Carera and a Honda Civic, can the same be said about a reference interconnect and one from Radioshack? I myself am a firm believe in cables, if the rest of my system were done and I had the cash, I'd definitely buy something like the Nordost Valhalla or the Nordost Tyr however, I do not believe any cable can 180 a system. He says his K1000 went from shrill and harsh to full bodied with an unbelievable warmth, c'mon people. Even Alwayswantmore tested out his Valkyrja recabled K1000, the one he says has unbelievable bass and warmth. Even he, the guy who loves the K1000 and has a Wadia and a Sig 30 feeding into it, said it was too harsh for his taste. Don't even get me started on what he has done to those cables, and that poor GCC-100. Have you seen his solder jobs and connector "improvements"? Yes, Patrick knows more about cables than the engineers at Nordost! Amazing, he should go into the cable industry! He'd make millions with his patented EMI cloth/Toilet paper dieclectic technology!

Simpy, the newer refernece cables are much better. SPM is an older cable, wich has been at least replaced by 2 new cables. It's called progress.

The other system is more reveailing then others, especially tube amps ahve better highs and reference series have much more extension in high and low. For me, it felt like night and day. I've never heard a cable before, and i have owned several expensive cables of other brands, wich such speed an accuracy.Maybe execpt the very expensive 9000 dollar siltech emperor. This should also be an amazing cable, but well out of my reach.

Well, the cable didn't do that for me either. What it did was; it made it much faster, better timbre and body and there's nothing in the way of the cable, so no own signature. I have a tube amp, so with tuberolling i can adjust the sound to my liking, by putting in better tubes.

What the cables do best is they let you hear what the equipment does, no signature of their own. Most cables sounds like they squeeze the frequencies and don't sound as fast and extended.

 

[tourmaline]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrick82 $7000 for 1 meter, don't think so. http://www.positive-feedback.com/Iss...orma_prime.htm They say Valhalla is thin and bright, that's not true. It only sounds like that if there are problems in the system. My system sounds very heavy. The best cable should sound bright in a poor system, otherwise it is flawed.

7000 dollars is cheap, 9000 dollars for the siltech emperor is something else.

Some reviewer had 40.000 dollars worth of cables in his test setup, send by the factory.

I wish they send it to me instead and i could keep it.

 

[music_man]

patrick82, i think you are the only person in the world that thinks cables make this big a difference. sure, no high end system should be without highend cables. that being said, some nordhost cables do not turn aiwa into mark levinson. thats my opinion.

anyhow, i think stealth audio cables are better. that's my opinion too

music_man

 

[skyline889]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tourmaline Simpy, the newer refernece cables are much better. SPM is an older cable, wich has been at least replaced by 2 new cables. It's called progress.

The SPM Reference series is still touted as one of the best cables on the market.

No matter how many "technological advances" they've made however, the fact is they're still using the same $13 a pair "Pro-fi" Neutrik knock-off connectors as they have been for the past 10 years. That's not really progress as I see it. Nor is a drop from 95% speed of light, to 87% speed of light for the time it takes for the signal to go from the source to the amplifier. They're entire "newer and progressed" lineup, all which have fewer conductors then previous models, all have longer propagation delays than their predecessors. So how much they've "progressed" is a matter of personal opinion.

 

[music_man]

that quote at the bottom of the last post from patrick82....

this is going to be very unpopular here, but i have never heard any headphones that sound that good. period. some loudspeakers, yeah they give me that tingly feeling.

no headphone does for me what something like apogee grand stages do.
not the he90, not the r10, not any.

you all know i love headphones or i wouldn't be here. they still have their limitations.

anyhow, that is a pretty clever comment from patrick82.

music_man

 

[applebook]

Hey, Patrick, could you please make a Vahalla power cord for my DAC1? It doesn't have to be long at all; I'll accomodate

How much?

 

[tourmaline]

Quote:

Originally Posted by skyline889 The SPM Reference series is still touted as one of the best cables on the market. No matter how many "technological advances" they've made however, the fact is they're still using the same $13 a pair "Pro-fi" Neutrik knock-off connectors as they have been for the past 10 years. That's not really progress as I see it. Nor is a drop from 95% speed of light, to 87% speed of light for the time it takes for the signal to go from the source to the amplifier. They're entire "newer and progressed" lineup, all which have fewer conductors then previous models, all have longer propagation delays than their predecessors. So how much they've "progressed" is a matter of personal opinion.

Not to Nordost, they clearly put the newer cables above the spm!

 

[tourmaline]

Quote:

Originally Posted by music_man that quote at the bottom of the last post from patrick82.... this is going to be very unpopular here, but i have never heard any headphones that sound that good. period. some loudspeakers, yeah they give me that tingly feeling. no headphone does for me what something like apogee grand stages do. not the he90, not the r10, not any. you all know i love headphones or i wouldn't be here. they still have their limitations. anyhow, that is a pretty clever comment from patrick82. music_man

Try the higher end headphones,like r10, stax etc. They are clearly better then most midrange speakers. I do agree that the best speakers are better then headphones, but also very expensive.

 

[skyline889]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tourmaline Try the higher end headphones,like r10, stax etc. They are clearly better then most midrange speakers. I do agree that the best speakers are better then headphones, but also very expensive.

He just stated, not the HE90s not the R10s, not any.

For me, the HE90s were the only heapdhones that really blew me away. Fed by the HE90V, the sound was simply magical, and yet I got the same feeling the first time I hooked up my Klipsch RF-82s. The 82s only cost a grand and for me, they better almost every headphone I've heard. Granted I have not auditioned the MDR-R10s, or the L3000s, or the Stax SR-Omega, or 007 however, unless they are a significant step-up from the Orpheus, I still think a comparably priced speaker rig will outperform a rig like the HE90/HE90V combo no matter what kind of cables are being used.

 

[Patrick82]

Quote:

Originally Posted by skyline889 The SPM Reference series is still touted as one of the best cables on the market. No matter how many "technological advances" they've made however, the fact is they're still using the same $13 a pair "Pro-fi" Neutrik knock-off connectors as they have been for the past 10 years. That's not really progress as I see it. Nor is a drop from 95% speed of light, to 87% speed of light for the time it takes for the signal to go from the source to the amplifier. They're entire "newer and progressed" lineup, all which have fewer conductors then previous models, all have longer propagation delays than their predecessors. So how much they've "progressed" is a matter of personal opinion.

The SPM doesn't have the same shielding as Valhalla. It looks like a flat speaker cable. SPM could become better than Valhalla with external shielding because of the faster speed. Try toilet paper rolls and wrap them with ERS paper.
Valhalla has paper inside and thin silver wires for the shield. That's why speed is slower. It should become faster if the shield is further away.
Speaker cable + toilet paper roll shield should be best, I will try it in a week.

 

[Patrick82]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tourmaline I also have reference series cables and yes, they sound much better then any cable before. I really wasn't expecting such a big difference, but it did.

Everytime I bought another Valhalla I expected more than previous time, but the real difference was still much bigger than I expected! It's great when you get surprised of the improvement, it's like you get better sound for free.


Quote:

Originally Posted by tourmaline Well, the cable didn't do that for me either. What it did was; it made it much faster, better timbre and body and there's nothing in the way of the cable, so no own signature. I have a tube amp, so with tuberolling i can adjust the sound to my liking, by putting in better tubes. What the cables do best is they let you hear what the equipment does, no signature of their own. Most cables sounds like they squeeze the frequencies and don't sound as fast and extended.

Exactly! With cheap cables there is something in front of the music. With Valhalla I'm hearing the source without any colorations added. Cheap cables sound slooooow. Valhalla sounds like it should sound.

Quote:

Originally Posted by applebook Hey, Patrick, could you please make a Vahalla power cord for my DAC1? It doesn't have to be long at all; I'll accomodate How much?

Don't think so. With 6 meters Valhalla my setup is already tight. I have pieces of Vishnu left over though. 1 meter Vishnu puts a veil in front of the music and it doesn't sound like real life, but it sounds smooth and listenable.

 

[music_man]

just to clarify, when i said "not any", i did mention in the same sentence "apogee grand stages". those were about a quarter of a million dolars in the late eighities.

nonetheless, i still enjoy the watt/puppy more than the he90/hev90.

headphones just cannot do that type of imaging/placement.

music_man

 

[tourmaline]

Quote:

Originally Posted by music_man just to clarify, when i said "not any", i did mention in the same sentence "apogee grand stages". those were about a quarter of a million dolars in the late eighities. nonetheless, i still enjoy the watt/puppy more than the he90/hev90. headphones just cannot do that type of imaging/placement. music_man

Nobody is saying that you can't like any speaker setup!

I also heard some really fantastic setups, but they were really expensive, and i mean really expensive. With headphones, you get better price/performance ratio. A good speaker setup that should sound as detailed as a cheap headphone will cost ya much more.

The problem with headphones is headstage...the problem with speakers is price and accoustics. Not to mention the physical presence in a room. Most people don't even think about such big speakers in a room.