Nordost Valhalla appreciation thread
Mar 31, 2007 at 6:52 AM Post #256 of 276
Quote:

Originally Posted by Icarium /img/forum/go_quote.gif
I kind of am curious what Patrick might do for a living... I kind of picture him as being loosely related to the IKEA family.


I don't go outside to bars to waste my money on girls, Valhalla cable is my girl and she likes when I tweak her. For 2 years I haven't bought anything other than tweaks for my audio system. I bought a light bulb once because it blew up, it felt bad to spend my money on that, but without light it is hard to do the soldering, I tried it first and it took hours to solder it blind. I also don't like when my fingers get too hot when I try to touch the solder joint because I can't see it.
 
Mar 31, 2007 at 2:15 PM Post #257 of 276
Haha... I like the fact that the most hardcore (and crazy?) headfier is swedish, a great ambassadeur!
k1000smile.gif


Du regerar Patrick!
 
Mar 31, 2007 at 8:18 PM Post #258 of 276
Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrick82 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
I don't go outside to bars to waste my money on girls, Valhalla cable is my girl and she likes when I tweak her. For 2 years I haven't bought anything other than tweaks for my audio system. I bought a light bulb once because it blew up, it felt bad to spend my money on that, but without light it is hard to do the soldering, I tried it first and it took hours to solder it blind. I also don't like when my fingers get too hot when I try to touch the solder joint because I can't see it.


So for a living you dont go to bars?? Where do i sign up!
 
Apr 2, 2007 at 12:51 PM Post #259 of 276
patrick, i think you stated that plain 16ga zipcord is good speaker wire didn't you? i wonder why people spend so much for that extra 1/100th. of diminishing gains.

also i think we might agree that using bare wire on speaker posts is way better than bannanas or spades. how do you put bare valhalla into posts?
well, leave it up to you i am sure you manage
icon10.gif


music_man
 
Apr 2, 2007 at 2:26 PM Post #260 of 276
Quote:

Originally Posted by music_man /img/forum/go_quote.gif
patrick, i think you stated that plain 16ga zipcord is good speaker wire didn't you? i wonder why people spend so much for that extra 1/100th. of diminishing gains.


I don't remember me stating that. I have replaced all the wiring in my system except for the PSU DC wiring of my computer. Cables and vibration isolation make the biggest differences in my system.

I use 22awg for my K1000 and interconnects, thicker isn't needed because bass is already crazy.

Replacing the K1000 Equinox cable with Nordost Solar Wind gave an improvement that was 2 times bigger than anything I ever heard before. Upgrading to Nordost Valkyrja gave an equally big improvement.

Quote:

Originally Posted by music_man /img/forum/go_quote.gif
also i think we might agree that using bare wire on speaker posts is way better than bannanas or spades. how do you put bare valhalla into posts?
well, leave it up to you i am sure you manage
icon10.gif


music_man



I don't use binding posts, I have my Valkyrja hardwired on both ends. It made one of the biggest improvements I ever heard.

 
Apr 3, 2007 at 1:40 AM Post #261 of 276
i know this thread is about the absolute ultimate cables but i do think there are some decent zip style cords. i didn't mean lamp cord.

radioshack's (now discontinued) 12ga mega cable was used by me in $10k+ pro systems and sounded good.

i am still from the school where the panel of 12 experts cannot tell the difference. i guess if you cannot tell the diference consider yourself lucky
smily_headphones1.gif


music_man
 
Apr 3, 2007 at 9:58 AM Post #262 of 276
Quote:

Originally Posted by music_man /img/forum/go_quote.gif
i know this thread is about the absolute ultimate cables but i do think there are some decent zip style cords. i didn't mean lamp cord.

radioshack's (now discontinued) 12ga mega cable was used by me in $10k+ pro systems and sounded good.

i am still from the school where the panel of 12 experts cannot tell the difference. i guess if you cannot tell the diference consider yourself lucky
smily_headphones1.gif


music_man



Then why have $10k+ pro systems if you can't hear a difference? $1k source is good enough for Valhalla, I will never upgrade my Benchmark DAC1. I even heard a difference when I used the analog outputs of EMU0404 ($99).
Big and shiny boxes are placebo, cables are just something that gets hidden behind the rack that you never see, that's why there is less placebo, people don't think the difference is as big as the component blocking it.

If your CD player is covered with manure does it sound like crap? If people would care less about looks and more about sound they would save a lot of money.
 
Jun 18, 2007 at 9:08 PM Post #263 of 276
I have done more A/B-ing comparing Valhalla to PS Audio xStream Statement power cable, I compared them with my Cary transport which is plugged into P300 Power Plant.

I also experimented more with the multiwave settings of P300. I have heard the same differences every time, and today it was confirmed because I was free from bias. I was hoping MWave1 would be better so I could use Premier Power Plant instead of the old P300 Power Plant. The Premier only has MWave1.
frown.gif
MWave4 has been the best setting with Valhalla for over a year now.



[size=large]ABX test for Cary transport[/size]


Yesterday I was doing A/B-ing for many hours and the differences became smaller and smaller which made me doubt my previous impressions. The more I continued the more skeptical I became. The reason is simple:

1) If you ABX test something that makes huge differences, and then move on to something subtle, you won't hear a difference.

2) If you keep changing the gear for hours, your brain doesn't get used to a certain sound. And the differences appear smaller.
But if you have been used to a certain flavor and then change to something else, the difference is huge. The more you keep switching, the smaller the differences become!
The same thing applies to sports, pro athletes can confirm it.

3) When you are fatigued the hearing performance becomes worse.



Yesterday I was so fatigued I couldn't think straight, I was switching back and forth, eventually I couldn't hear a difference at all. It felt like everything was placebo.

Then I went to bed and today I'm trying again. The secret is to only ABX test a few trials a day, otherwise the results aren't accurate. The first impression is the most important one, but you also need to be free from bias. Since everything sounded the same yesterday right before I went to bed, today I'm free from bias.



The setup I call "home" is the one I have been used to the longest.

Home setup: (wall) Power Port - 1m Valhalla - Ultimate Outlet - 50cm Valhalla - P300 Power Plant (MWave4) - 2m Valhalla - Cary

Other AC outlet:
stock - JuiceBar - 4 Noise Harvesters



First I removed the Ultimate Outlet and replaced it with JuiceBar, but I had to remove one Harvester to do so. I could hear many sound signatures at once and then I gave up, it sounded very different and I didn't know which difference came from what tweak. It sounded colder and thinner.

So I put back the home setup and this time I had 3 Harvesters plugged in instead of 4. Putting back the Ultimate Outlet made it sound heavier. It sounded like the home setup but something was missing, so I plugged the 4th Harvester back in.

Changed from 3 to 4 Harvesters: Holy ****! Bass is bigger and more solid. It sounds smoother, kind of buttery. With 3 Harvesters I couldn't hear the butter but with 4 Harvesters I can! There is no brightness whatsoever. I'm "home" and can listen for hours.



Then it was time for power cord testing. The visitor cable is PS Audio xStream Statement.

Changed from 2m Valhalla to 1.5m Statement: Darker and heavier. After a while it sounded muddy and fatiguing.

Changed from MWave4 to MWave1: More open and faster with more midrange emphasis, more detail. MWave1 setting is best for Statement cable. It still sounded too heavy and muddy which was fatiguing after a while.

Changed from 1.5m Statement into 2m Valhalla: More open, faster, higher, thinner, smoother, buttery sound more apparent, less fatigue. Transients are faster and thinner.

Changed from MWave1 to MWave4: More oomph in the bass, little muddier.

Changed from MWave4 to MWave1: Something is missing but sounds more open and smooth. Thin and lifeless.

Changed from MWave1 to MWave4: Fatiguing crazy heavy bass. Not thin and lifeless anymore. It sounds too heavy with an illusion of muddiness. Holy ****! More low-level bass transients than any combo!



MWave4 has more bass and low-level detail. With MWave1 it sounds empty because they are missing, but instead everything sounds more open with more midrange emphasis. MWave4 sounds dark while MWave1 sounds bright.

When using power cords for the transport I'm not sure which cable is more neutral, they both have the same low-level detail but they have different weight.

Statement sounds too heavy which makes the slow transients appear faster because they are closer to each other, but it also makes the tiny transients blend together because of too little silence in between those beats.

Valhalla is the opposite of that, the tiny transients sound faster because of more silence around the sounds. This also makes the soundstage more open and smooth. Everything sounds very clean.

Statement doesn't benefit from MWave4 because the extra low-level bass transients aren't audible anyway since the Statement covers them up. The best setting for Statement cable is MWave1 because it made the thinness and brightness heavier which made it more apparent.

So if the transients are too thin, Statement is best, if the transients are too thick, Valhalla is best.



MWave4 sounds very heavy compared to MWave1, and it also has low-level bass transient detail that MWave1 doesn't have. It also seems like MWave1 has more high frequency detail than MWave4. But Valhalla with MWave4 still has more high frequency detail than Statement with MWave1.

It sounds like Valhalla moves everything up to the surface which makes the details more audible. Since MWave4 has the highs lacking, Valhalla compensates for it by boosting up the highs higher. MWave4 sounds dark, and Valhalla moves up the darkness to the surface, what happens to the detail under the darkness? There isn't any detail, and that is what makes it sound clean and smooth like the background is dead black. Since all recordings have some background noise, then this is a very good thing. So what happens is, MWave4 gives true low-level detail, and Valhalla takes that detail and adds its own black and clean background under it. What MWave1 does is, it removes the low-level detail of MWave4, which makes it sound clean and open, but a part of the music is missing. Adding Statement cable to MWave1 covers up the missing parts by adding heaviness and darkness into the sound. So Statement tries to add detail by toning down the lowest level detail of MWave1. Statement tries to pull the detail lower and deeper, while Valhalla pulls the detail higher and more to the surface.

After reading that, the best combination of multiwave setting and power cord is obvious. MWave4 for true low-level detail, and Valhalla for pulling it up and making it audible. When all details have been pulled up, Valhalla adds its own clean and smooth bottom which makes the soundstage appear bigger.



MWave1.JPG






MWave4.JPG
 
Jun 19, 2007 at 1:32 AM Post #266 of 276
I'm using a PS Audio xStream Statement SC at the moment and I disagree that it muddies the bottom and mutes the highs. On the contrary, the bass seems to have more authority and clarity. The highs are more emphasised rather than toned down by the Statement SC. This is versus the stock Esoteric power cable. Maybe you're comparing against the Valhalla, which is many times more expensive.

You've had plenty of experience with the Valhalla, I was wondering whether you could give me any advice on the cheaper Heimdall and Frey speaker cables. I'm currently in the market for a sub $2,500 speaker cable. My dad borrowed a pair of $3,000 Ortofon 7NX-something-or-rather (can't be bothered to go downstairs to check the model number) from the JMLabs dealer yesterday. There's an increased solidity and reinforcement in the bass and mids, resulting in a much more dynamic listen. Orchestral music (especially Shostakovich!) sounds very good. The highs seem slighted less prominent compared to the previous silver cable. Overall, it's a great cable, but if another cable can provide the same solidity in the lower registers while offering a more sparkling high frequency, I may go have a listen to them. The Frey may be slightly over budget because we need a 3.0m pair (bananas) and US stuff is generally more expensive in Hong Kong than elsewhere.

Also, I've got an opportunity to buy a pair of just-replaced $2.5k JPS Labs Superconductor 2 speaker cables for a mere $900. I wonder if you've had any experience with them, or JPS Labs in general. As we're on good terms with the JMLabs dealer having purchased a full system from them, I can probably borrow the JPS Labs SC2 and have a listen. I have little idea where the Nordost dealer in Hong Kong is.

Thanks Pat.
 
Jun 19, 2007 at 6:59 AM Post #267 of 276
Quote:

Originally Posted by milkpowder /img/forum/go_quote.gif
I'm using a PS Audio xStream Statement SC at the moment and I disagree that it muddies the bottom and mutes the highs. On the contrary, the bass seems to have more authority and clarity. The highs are more emphasised rather than toned down by the Statement SC. This is versus the stock Esoteric power cable. Maybe you're comparing against the Valhalla, which is many times more expensive.


I was comparing Valhalla against the older Statement version (6awg), not SC. I also had the Valhalla modified from 3x16awg into 1x16awg, it gave more low-level detail.

Quote:

Originally Posted by milkpowder /img/forum/go_quote.gif
You've had plenty of experience with the Valhalla, I was wondering whether you could give me any advice on the cheaper Heimdall and Frey speaker cables. I'm currently in the market for a sub $2,500 speaker cable.


They both have 60 microns silver plating and Heimdall uses 24 conductors while Frey uses 28 conductors. I think Frey uses better connectors as well. Frey should give little more bass than Heimdall but with the same highs.
 
Jun 19, 2007 at 7:10 AM Post #268 of 276
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jon118 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
It looks like the MWave is the cleanest sound of the three. Either that or the most boring. Probably a bit of both I'm guessing.


All power cords and Multiwave settings color the sound.

A neutral MWave is somewhere between Statement and Valhalla, both cables pull the sound in opposite directions.

With my experiments it seems like a stock cable works best with Sinewave because they both are neutral. Sinewave is somewhere between MWave1 and MWave4.
With Statement MWave1 works best, and with Valhalla MWave4 works best.
 
Aug 16, 2007 at 9:17 AM Post #269 of 276
[size=large]Stock vs Valhalla for Cary CD transport[/size]


I'm using MWave1 for these tests.

I wrapped the 180cm 18awg stock cable with ERS Paper. I didn't make it as pretty as for my Valhalla, but at least there weren't any gaps anywhere. Since I did it quick I think the ERS Paper got too close to the cable. But when using it for the transport, I don't think it matters much.

First impressions ERS for stock: Heavier bass. Some edginess transformed into transients. More low-level detail. But everything was little dull and boring. Some of the low-level detail was covered up in mud.
I think I liked the edgy sound of nude cable more even when it was fatiguing.


Then I changed back to Valhalla...

180cm 18awg stock

vs

210cm 16awg Valhalla


Nordost Valhalla: Heavier bass than stock. Little less low-level detail than stock. The low-level detail is covered up in snow instead of mud. It makes it sound smoother and more open. Everything sounds cleaner and more like real life! The lack of low-level detail makes the soundstage appear bigger with more separation of the sounds. Everything seems to be more distinct compared to stock. The transients sound more hairy because the whiteness is covered up. Stock cable was edgy and maybe little harsh.

This is obvious now that Valhalla is similar to vacuum tubes. It makes it sound like real life! I get lost inside the music and can listen for hours. With stock cable that doesn't happen.
It sounds like Valhalla puts a layer of snow under the music. It covers up all the mud on the bottom. Valhalla is very clean.






 
Oct 20, 2011 at 9:02 AM Post #270 of 276
THE BEST CABLE I HAVE EVER HAD.
 
This cable is like the salt for the food. This is the most essential part of one Hi-End Audio System.
 
The music become natural and amazing. The listener become part of the scene. You can not tell that the bass is heavier or the treble is mud. Everything is just there so real and nice that you can not imagine that before  you listen to it.
 
Thank you Nordost.
Thank you Valhalla.
 
 
 

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