Noozxoide and Neutron versus Jplay for Windows
Dec 11, 2012 at 6:30 PM Thread Starter Post #1 of 30

Nirmalanow

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I just got a Nexus 10 tablet for my birthday and was having a lot of fun with it, especially after discovering the Neutron music player app and also Noozxoide Eizo Rewire Pro which is an app that works in the background to provide digital signal processing. The two together sounded better that I could have ever hoped for even just with my Hifiman REOs coming straight out of the Nexus 10. Sounded even better if I fed my RSA predator and MarkL modded D5000 headphones off of the Nexus.
 
Then I read the glowing review of the new Jplay software for windows on 6moons: http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/jplay/1.html where Paul Candy gave the software a blue moon award. So I borrowed my wife's laptop (my computer still uses XP which does not work with Jplay) and downloaded the free trial of Jplay and took it out for a spin with my Hifiman 801 serving as the USB DACand still feeding the predator and modded D5000s. Wow! What a natural and organic and detailed sound. Everything just felt right, and the music flowed so smoothly and fluidly. It definitely sounded better than the same FLAC files played on the SD card inside the 801, which is not a bad sound at all. Jplay's website is here: http://jplay.eu/
 
But the real surprise came when I went back to the Nexus 10. It sounded almost as good...I mean if you had to put a number on it, I would say 95% as good. So here is a $400 tablet playing with two free apps, and it comes damn close to a 100 euro program running on a full laptop feeding a $800 external DAC. When both were fed into the Predator and then the D5000s, the sound was so similar it was remarkable. The only words for the slight difference I can come up with is that somehow the instruments sounded a little more natural with the Jplay setup. But the difference was extremely slight.
 
Both setups have lots of ways to tweak the sound. The Jplay has a wide range of settings, and I mostly listened using the Hibernate mode of the mini-player that Jplay offers (you can also use it as a plug-in for Foobar, iTunes, and JRiver music players). This is the mode that according to Paul Candy is the ultimate in SQ. And again it sounded fabulous, and yet the Nexus was keeping up with it. The Noozxoide android app has an even wider range of settings that you can play with, and I found I liked almost all of the effects this digital processor offers, especially when used in moderation. And you can also vary the sound day to day if you want a little variety. I am not sure what each of the features of this app really do technically, but the effect is quite noticeable and yet at the same time natural and easy to listen to. I have used a lot of other digital sound effect programs and while it was always interesting and kind of stimulating, they quickly wore themselves out and were fatiguing to listen to long term. But there is no problem living with the Noozxoide effects for hours at a time, and they bring the music on the Nexus 10 alive in ways that are hard to live without.
 
I would definitely recommend checking out either of these programs  depending on whether you are using Windows or Android. But the real surprise for me was how good the Noozxoide/Neutron combo is when compared to an arguably better hardware setup. The DAC in the hifiman is clearly much better than the one in the Nexus tablet, but the convenience of using a small tablet means I will be sticking with the Nexus, and adding the two free apps means I do not have to give up anything meaningful in SQ. The mini-player of the Jplay software is pretty limited, and while you can use Foobar, etc. for more convenience, Paul Candy says there is a slight but noticeable reduction in SQ when using Jplay as a plug-in to the other music players.
 
One thing I did not do was try the Jplay software on Windows 8 which according to Paul Candy and others on the Jplay forum adds another level of refinement to the sound compared to Windows 7. I also am hoping that someday Google adds external USB DAC support to Android so that I can try feeding my 801 with the Nexus tablet. Always something else to try! In the meantime, the Nexus with free apps is actually better sounding than using my Hifiman 801 as a stand alone source, again when both are feeding the Predator and D5000s.
 
(If you are using Android or thinking of using Android someday, you can help prod Google to add USB DAC support by voting by starring the following issue: http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=24614&sort=-stars&colspec=ID%20Type%20Status%20Owner%20Summary%20Stars)
 
Correction: The Neutron Music Player is not a free app. it costs $4.99. I was using the free trial version and forgot that it was just a trial.
 
Dec 15, 2012 at 2:21 PM Post #2 of 30
I wanted to add some more observations about the Noozxoide app that tweaks the sound in Android. It is a simple add on and works in the background along with the Neutron Music Player app I am using to control playback. You just have to go into settings and select it under Sound>Music Effects. Then on the app itself you can select a number of digital enhancements with different levels of effects. Sometimes I enjoy a "simpler" sound with less enhancement, but other times it brings the music alive somehow to add a little digital effect spice. As I mentioned, the effects are not tiring to me unlike other digital sound enhancements I have tried in the past such as the truly bad SRS WOW effects.
 
One strange option that I enjoy using sometimes is that I can select a virtual surround effect in Noozxoide that increases the perceived size of the room (there are several different sizes) and then also select the crossfeed feature in the Neutron player. This combination is especially nice for simple arrangements as the Noozxoide virtual surround effect lifts the sound up out of the closed in feeling you can get while listening to headphones and gives the music a live, in the room feel and more space and air. However, I think the Noozxoide surround effect was designed for speakers more than for headphones and so the effect can be a little scattered on headphones. But when I add in the crossfeed (which again is on the Neutron Music Player, not on the Noozxoide app) then it brings the music back into focus enough to sound more coherent while keeping the air and space I like. The thought of this much signal processing probably gives purists fits, but I find it fun to try the effects on different types of music and see how it feels. The two together seems to work on a lot of the music I listen to, and to actually allow me to hear more deeply into the music.
 
Also, The crossfeed on the Neutron player by itself is one of the best crossfeed effects I have used, and that does not require the extra Noozxoide app.
 
There is also a setting in Noozxoide to "Increase the monitor size with added psycho-acoustic" that is supposed to "increase the perceived speaker size with added warm attack on the content". I like this setting on the lowest setting as it gives just a hint of warmth. Kind of like adding tubes into the signal path. You can boost it up to medium on some music that can take it, but it can start to make the bass too muddy if the recording does not need the extra warmth.
 
I like being able to try out different sound adjustments. It is kind of like having a bunch of different headphones and/or amps to try just by touching the screen instead of having to unplug and plug in a new piece of equipment.
 
EDIT added later: I started noticing some distortion during loud peaks in the music which disappeared after shutting off the crossfeed. Then I read on the Google Play store where in the description for the Nozxoide app, it warns against using any additional signal processing downstream from the Nozxoide app, as this can lead to distortion. So I am back to listening without the crossfeed in the Neutron player. I seem to be getting used to the more live sound and it does not feel scattered anymore. Maybe this is a kind of "brain burn in". In any case with these two apps, I can switch day to day or even song to song between just using the "surround sound" effect on the Nozxoide app for a much more live spacious sound, or go with just the crossfeed on the Neutron player for a more typical intimate headphone sound. Again, very different sound just by tapping the screen a few times.
 
Dec 20, 2012 at 8:13 PM Post #3 of 30
This is a impressive write my friend...
After reading your write up i went ahead to download this app...
Looks amazing... i will be doing some listening very soon...
Best of all its free!
 
Dec 20, 2012 at 9:07 PM Post #5 of 30
Quote:
i tried the app...
i must say it is very good...
i'm wondering does it work with video playing apps...
have u tried?


I can't say as I do not use many apps on my Nexus....mostly just music so far. Just try it and see! I did notice it says "Movies, Games, Music, Soundology" at the bottom of the initial screen and there are presets in the EQ for games.
 
Dec 20, 2012 at 9:34 PM Post #6 of 30
I have found a way to use an external DAC with my Nexus 10 using a new app called USB Audio Recorder Pro. It has very limited functionality as a music player as it was designed for recording. However, with my Predator DAC/AMP hooked up to the Nexus, I found the sound to regain that extra edge of naturalness and transparency that I heard with the Jplay software on my wife's laptop. Here is what I wrote in another thread on the Portable Source Gear forum:
 
"I said I would post some impressions of the USB Audio Recorder app once I had listened some more. I happened to have just purchased a set of HE-400 headphones and am really enjoying their clarity and detail. So before my HE 400s arrived, when I was listening with my modded d5000s, I felt the edge went slightly to Neutron music player with the Noozxoide app running. For this I connect my Predator via a mini to mini cable to the headphone out of the Nexus tablet. The Noozxoide makes up for any limits in the sound although the Nexus is no slouch when it comes to SQ and there is a decent DAC in there (I believe it is a Wolfson DAC)
 
But now with my HE-400s working like a microscope into the music, I must say the USB Audio Recorder has a definite edge. The sound is simply more natural and flows more effortlessly. This makes sense as there is much less processing of the sound. I used a short silver USB cable I have and hooked up to the DAC inside my Predator amp/dac. Compared to going through the headphone out to the mini input of the Predator, there is more detail, transparency and natural tone when listening with my HE400 headphones.
 
The Neutron and Noozxoide sound great, but there is something organic and pleasing when I switch over to the much cleaner signal path of the USB app. However, the Neutron/Noozxoide sound is so close that it is questionable if it is worth the hassle of loading my songs one at a time into the USB app. I guess I will wait and see what the developer comes up with for making playback easier on his software. I don't need a lot of features in a music player, but the bare minimum would be the ability to load folders and then use shuffle, and to be able to skip a track to the next one if a song comes up on shuffle I don't feel like listening to. Beyond that I can live with bare bones.
 
I also have not tried rolling any DACs into the equation. I would love to know if the new Dragonfly by Audioquest would run off this app. And of course I will still be watching to see if Google adds USB DAC functionality to Android. Then I might be able to have my cake and eat it too by using external dacs and the Neutron/Noozxoide combo. I did ask the USB app developer and as of now, no other apps can access the DAC through his app. And in the meantime, I can still use the Noozxoide app anytime I do not want to carry an extra amp. For travel I would probably just take the Nexus and my REO iems, and then the Noozxoide would really come in handy.
 
With the free trial of the USB app and the totally free cost of the Noozxoide app, there is no reason not to at least give these new options a try and see if they work with your equipment and your ears."
redface.gif

 
And if anybody tries this with a Dragonfly, let us know if it works with that device! (Edit: Dragonfly does work according to another Headfier, but the analog volume control in the Dragonfly is not operational as that seems to require a regular computer to work.)
 
Another edit: I got a DACport LX USB DAC and it has slightly increased the performance advantage of using the USB Audio Recorder Pro app to feed an external DAC when compared to using the DAC in my Predator. So for now I am selecting songs one at a time to listen to on the Recorder app. I do hope it is not long before either the developer adds more functions for playback, or Google adds USB DAC functionality to Android. The latter would mean I could use both Noozxoide and an external DAC.
 
Dec 22, 2012 at 1:06 PM Post #7 of 30
Thanks for all of your excellent comments, Nirmalanow!
 
I just discovered Noozxoide yesterday through another thread and have been trying it out. I've had some trouble disabling MusicFX and activating Noozxoide, but that might be due to the custom ROM I am using in my Galaxy S III. The music player in use is Neutron, and I'm sending the output digitally to a ODAC+O2 combination (mounted inside the O2 enclosure with batteries retained). The headphones I'm using are Mad Dogs with Dog Pads, Ultimate Ears Triple.Fi 10 IEMs, and Audeze LCD-2 Rev. 2.
 
I'm not sure I'm hearing any effect from the Noozxoide plugin, so I'm going to play with the ROM setup in my Galaxy S III to see if I can totally remove MusicFX before installing Noozxoide.
 
I might also try Noozxoide on my Nexus 7 tablet to check out its performance, even though that tablet's DAC is of average quality.
 
Dec 22, 2012 at 1:51 PM Post #8 of 30
Lucky for you that eventually you should be able to get Noozxoide to work with your external DAC since the Galaxy supports external DACs. Right now I have to choose between Nooz/Neutron through my Nexus 10's wolfson DAC or bypass all of that and play through the DAC in my Predator using the new app called USB Audio Recorder app. The sound is better going to the external DAC, but I miss all of the conveniences of a true music player app, and the sound tweaking options of Noozxoide. I have a feeling someday it will be easier when Android adds USB DAC support, hopefully in the next release which the Nexus 10 should get right away. In the meantime, I ordered a DACport LX  (instead of a Dragonfly) to see what an even better external DAC might do for the sound.
 
As for getting Noozxoide to work on my Nexus 10, all I had to do was go to Settings>Sound>Music Effects and then unselect Music FX and select Noozxoide, but I do not know what is required on your custom ROM. Let me know if you get it working on your Galaxy and also what you think of it on your Nexus 7.
 
Dec 23, 2012 at 8:06 PM Post #9 of 30
i have been trying the Nooz for the pass 3days... i must say now i totally look at my LG's headphone out differently...
and by adjusting the settings in "build-in audio monitor" i can alter the sound coming out from my phone's speakers... like making it less bass heavy so that it doesn't distort the sound as we know phone speakers does not play reproduce very well...
i must say this is a totally great find!
 
Dec 24, 2012 at 5:16 AM Post #10 of 30
Hi, If your Android phone is un-rooted. Noozxoide EIZO-rewire PRO Series will acts and operates normally without any hassle. There are quite a lot of threads are making it looks like a very technical product. Making a good sound modeling on non-rooted device is quite challenging.
 
Dec 26, 2012 at 5:05 AM Post #11 of 30
 
 
 
Quote:
I just got a Nexus 10 tablet for my birthday and was having a lot of fun with it, especially after discovering the Neutron music player app and also Noozxoide EIZO Rewire Pro which is an app that works in the background to provide digital signal processing...
 
Welcome to Special Effects in digital audio. I am really enjoy reading your post and thank you for your compliments. I'm glad you are enjoying the EIZO's special ingredient of HRTF. This is the first time I have brought the desktop version Noozxoide Labs, EIZO down to Android. There are quite a number of software-layered sound processors (simply called it as native sound libraries) has been developed in the lab to use as middleware. You will need an AMP to use with EIZO (to avoid clipping) due to EIZO handles distortions carefully which produces from some DACs on the phone or tablet. Thank you again. Hope you enjoy the quality sound. ヾ( ̄∇ ̄=ノ
 
(Edit) Please install product at Google Play to ensure every bit is amazing...

 
Dec 26, 2012 at 9:45 AM Post #12 of 30
Hi Akaruryutaro, Thanks for the suggestions. I did get the app on Google Play.
 
I do have some questions: You say I will need an amp. Are you saying that there might be distortion using the headphone output of the Nexus tablet? I have not noticed this happening, but I mostly use an external amp (Predator) that is being fed by the headphone out.
 
I am also now using a new app called USB Audio Recorder Pro that allows me to use an external USB DAC with my Nexus 10, even though the version of Android I am using does not support USB DACs. It sounds better than the internal DAC, but unfortunately it does not work with Noozxoide. So I have to either use my external DAC and give up the effects in Noozxoide, or use the internal DAC and have the use of the effects (using Neutron as music player). Is there any way you are aware of to get the effects working with this new app? The best of both worlds would be to use Noozxoide and my external DACport LX through the USB output.
 
Could you give a sentence or two to describe the effect on the sound of each feature of Noozxoide. Some of them are pretty obvious in their effects, but when I use Noozxoide VE-Volume Engine, I am not sure I can hear a difference even at the strongest setting. It might help to know what I should be listening for.
 
And is the VSUR designed for headphones or speakers? I like it on the "Studio" setting with my headphones, but there seems to be a scattering of the sound when I use the wider settings, but that might just be my preferences.
 
Thanks for creating this app. I enjoy using it. My favorite effect is the one to "increase monitor size with added psychoacoustics" It adds a nice fullness to the sound although I just use the lowest setting.
 
Dec 26, 2012 at 4:14 PM Post #13 of 30
I dug out my old Acoustic Research TDS202 TDS Sound Enhancement Sound System (http://www.amazon.com/Acoustic-Research-TDS202-Enhancement-1-Speaker/dp/B00005QZ16/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top) and included that in the line from my Nexus 10 to the Predator amp. I have not had a lot of time to listen, but it upped the detail and air in the sound. With that in place, I can use the Noozxoide app and get very close again to what I was hearing using the USB Audio Recorder Pro app and the Dacport LX. The dacport Lx is already very detailed, and using it with the TDS202 almost gets too detailed and analytical. And I really like lots of detail. So I will probably go with the Noozxoide app feeding my Predator out of the headphone out for most listening because that allows me to use Neutron as a music player. It gets old pretty quickly to have to load each song into the USB app and play one song at a time.
 
But I am hopeful that someday soon, there is a more robust system for using an external DAC with Android devices, possibly released by Google as part of the next Android version. Then I will be able to play with combining the Noozxoide app and an external DAC, and also probably use Neutron for playback.
 
Dec 26, 2012 at 6:46 PM Post #14 of 30
I spent some more time listening with the TDS Sound enhancer, and I just have to say that usually adding a lot of detail to the sound would show up any deficiency in the source. But even though the TDS adds a whole new level of clarity and detail, the Noozxoide app sounds even better than it did before. In fact with the cleaner sound, I was able to increase the level of processing without causing any problems. I increased the level of the effect described as one to "increase monitor size with added psychoacoustics" from the lowest setting to the medium setting and instead of muddying the sound like it did before, it now adds a whole new level of warmth and body to the sound. It adds up to the best of both worlds: incredible detail that is warm and full at the same time. I am loving it!
 
However, I did find that with the increased clarity, the effect that widens the soundstage is still too scattered at the widest settings. But it sounds clean and spacious at the setting for room size called "studio". So i just leave it there.
 
I just keep getting more and more impressed with this Noozxoide app. I improve the rest of my system's resolving power, and the app keeps right up and still sounds great. After all of the terrible sounding digital effects I have tried, this is a breath of fresh air!
 
Dec 26, 2012 at 11:52 PM Post #15 of 30
Quote:
...Could you give a sentence or two to describe the effect on the sound of each feature of Noozxoide. Some of them are pretty obvious in their effects, but when I use Noozxoide VE-Volume Engine, I am not sure I can hear a difference even at the strongest setting. It might help to know what I should be listening for....

 
I owe you an appologize, the distortion using headphone with tablet/phone straight set up according to my datasheet are (Yamaha, Qualcomm) DACs. For the moment EIZO only supports SPUs (listed at below) by using homebrew emulation technologies. The % indicate how many SPU models are supported.

Compatible EMU chips: Tegra 2/3 (100%), Wolfson (100%), Realtek (70%), Yamaha (40%), Cirrus Logic (80%), Texas Instruments (90%), Qualcomm (50%)

The internal DAC on Android devices are mostly 16bit DAC (hard to find a 24bit DAC). But with an emulator (Noozxoide SoundXEMU, "sound-cross-emulation"), it delivers all the sources into SoundXEMU for software-layer (not really a true 24bit) 16bit/24bit-float effects processing before delivers back to internal DAC for output to a monitor. The EIZO-rewire PRO is still a prototype. VE-Engine is unavailable. VSUR is for headphone but with more fancies and illusional sound images. Unlike 5.1 surround sound with clear sound images from each channels. I called it as "non-channeling" or "infinite-images". I managed to make it zero artifacts, this is a special effect in digital audio, it won't giving you true audiophile experience, like with an AMP and a nice pair of headphone listen to a stereo playback, but to a new world.
 
There will be new one called "N" Series planned to release at late JAN 2013. "N Series" is a full processor-based version. Please take a look at the below selected processors designed for each different sound modeling to deliver smooth and clean sound.


EIZO-rewire [PRO Series]

Noozxoide XLimiter™ is a compressor with 3-levels automatic gain compensation. Threshold response -30dB to 0dB. Good for poor audio condition or on a low-end micro-driver.

Noozxoide Balanced X-EQ™ is an semi-Q featured overload-free parametric filter to delivers a versatile warm, analogstyle sound and details control.

Noozxoide MaxxBass™ (Noozxoide Psychoacoustic™ II) is a signal processing algorithm which enables monitor to sound deeper and more powerful, it takes bass to the maximum on more speaker sizes, from any sources, by adding a series of harmonics to the signal. These harmonics stimulate a psychoacoustic bass-enhancing effect under 1 octave - a phenomenon that small speakers rely on to play audible bass. MaxxBass simply maximizes this known acoustical phenomenon.

Noozxoide LogicSurround™ ES is a virtual surround sound provides illusional phantom effect and spacious listening experience through a single stereo monitor.
 

EIZO-rewire [N Series] (upcoming)

Noozxoide NogicQ™ is an Q-free true voice processor. The processor programmed with various of the wave-forms, playback audible signal with no traditional parametric EQ filter to the signal. It matches signal wave from a music track with programmed exact EQ, balanced true voice results audible signals with low latency, low noise, extremely low harmonics, tumble-crystal-clear high signal, unique-ty drive out high-driver equipment, pump-in 16k 16Bit/24Bit sampler beating result.

Noozxoide ESXCircle360™ environmental processor delivers WET/DRY natural, immersive and organic virtual surround sound. Uses 180 degree stereo audio across the 2 speakers to create 3 dimension space, designed for maximum gaming and movie satisfactions like you are inside the war zone for headphone monitor.

Noozxoide Psychoacoustic™ II (Noozxoide MaxxBass II™) is a signal processing algorithm which enables monitor to sound deeper and more powerful, it takes bass to the maximum on more speaker sizes, from any sources, by adding a series of harmonics to the signal. These harmonics stimulate a psychoacoustic bass-enhancing effect under 1.5 octave - a phenomenon that small speakers rely on to play audible bass. MaxxBass simply maximizes this known acoustical phenomenon.
 
==========================
 
EIZO-rewire is loaded with noise-reduction, but it is an experimental, it operates beneath EIZO, the aggressiveness is 3% noise reduction.
 
Noozxoide NRxn™ delivers audio restoration from the compressed audio format. Eliminates crackles ad surface noise. high-pass filter removes rumble and DC-Offset. Also eliminates background noise from any sources, removes broadband noise reducing any overload curves.
 

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