[Mindblock]

I don't know if this is the best forum for this post, as it touches upon sources, amps, and connections.....oh well, here goes.....

I must confess that I have read with some interest the posts here and elsewhere citing the relatively poor sound quality of the iPod headphone out but until today I didn’t have a good feeling for the magnitude of the difference.

For a bit of perspective, for the past four years or so while traveling I have been listening, quite happily mind you, to apple lossless files on Etymotic ER4's though a Total Airhead connected to one of many iPods (U2, mini, shuffle, and now 120GB Classic) via mini-to-mini cable.

I had read about subtle sound differences between amps, the change in sonic profile that “burn-in” does or does not produce and when listening critically to these rigs with the mini-to-mini connection I was able to pick up what I considered to be subtle differences between 192k files and lossless files.

Earlier today I received my “3.5 to 3.5 Interconnect Silver Plated Copper Wire Flat Cable” and LOD which I had ordered from iBasso and hooked up the iPod Classic to Total Airhead via LOD and I have not been able to pull the Etys out of my ears….it is as if I had never heard them before…..an opaque screen has been lifted and I am hearing MUSIC as opposed to sound.

There was a sound stage before, and it wasn’t bad, but for the first time there is depth to the image and the voicing of the instruments is FAR more distinct…..simply outstanding. Hearing what this has done for the Etys I hate to imagine how my Triple.Fi 10’s are going to sound…..like I said, I can't seem to pull teh Etys out of my ears <G>.....

Like many here, I am awaiting delivery of my pre-order RSA P-51 Mustang. I now have far greater understanding for Ray Samuels’ urging that people not listen to his amps with iPods unless they use a LOD.

The difference in sound I have experienced today is definitely on par with the Exemplar mod to my Denon 3910, or my turntable upgrade to the Basis 2200 with a Dynavector 17D3 cartridge…..but THIS cost less than $50!!

Why didn't I listen to the combined wisdom sooner???

 

[ANGELSS]

Congratulations

 

[ZoNtO]

And I was just considering selling my iPod since I liked the sound of the clip so much more.... I just can't justify anything else for the price/GB ratio but with the ER4p and lossless it sounds so veiled and brittle compared to the clip. I wish I could afford a nice amp like the mustang...

 

[tstarn06]

Exact same thing happened to me, quite by chance. My daughter's iPod 5.5g HP out jack crashed (sound from only one channel), so she got a Touch 2G and gave me her iPod, which I always thought sounded weak from the HP out (I have a Zune and a Sony DAP, never an iPod).

I have a MiniboxE+ amp (very good value amp), and for kicks, bought a DIY LOD cable (from Lil Knight, a very capable Head Fi'er) and plugged it into my AL 716s (modded), which are made by Ety (close to ER4P). Wow, blew me away. Now, I am busy loading up that player with 256k and Apple lossless files, specifically for home listening (don't like carrying the Minibox around) with my new Westone 3s.

Ray Samuels is a very smart man.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mindblock /img/forum/go_quote.gif I don't know if this is the best forum for this post, as it touches upon sources, amps, and connections.....oh well, here goes..... I must confess that I have read with some interest the posts here and elsewhere citing the relatively poor sound quality of the iPod headphone out but until today I didn’t have a good feeling for the magnitude of the difference. For a bit of perspective, for the past four years or so while traveling I have been listening, quite happily mind you, to apple lossless files on Etymotic ER4's though a Total Airhead connected to one of many iPods (U2, mini, shuffle, and now 120GB Classic) via mini-to-mini cable. I had read about subtle sound differences between amps, the change in sonic profile that “burn-in” does or does not produce and when listening critically to these rigs with the mini-to-mini connection I was able to pick up what I considered to be subtle differences between 192k files and lossless files. Earlier today I received my “3.5 to 3.5 Interconnect Silver Plated Copper Wire Flat Cable” and LOD which I had ordered from iBasso and hooked up the iPod Classic to Total Airhead via LOD and I have not been able to pull the Etys out of my ears….it is as if I had never heard them before…..an opaque screen has been lifted and I am hearing MUSIC as opposed to sound. There was a sound stage before, and it wasn’t bad, but for the first time there is depth to the image and the voicing of the instruments is FAR more distinct…..simply outstanding. Hearing what this has done for the Etys I hate to imagine how my Triple.Fi 10’s are going to sound…..like I said, I can't seem to pull teh Etys out of my ears <G>..... Like many here, I am awaiting delivery of my pre-order RSA P-51 Mustang. I now have far greater understanding for Ray Samuels’ urging that people not listen to his amps with iPods unless they use a LOD. The difference in sound I have experienced today is definitely on par with the Exemplar mod to my Denon 3910, or my turntable upgrade to the Basis 2200 with a Dynavector 17D3 cartridge…..but THIS cost less than $50!! Why didn't I listen to the combined wisdom sooner???

 

[tstarn06]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZoNtO /img/forum/go_quote.gif And I was just considering selling my iPod since I liked the sound of the clip so much more.... I just can't justify anything else for the price/GB ratio but with the ER4p and lossless it sounds so veiled and brittle compared to the clip. I wish I could afford a nice amp like the mustang...

You can get there with less expensive amps. Check out posts by marroyo and Skylab on portable amps, and no need to go ALO for cables, as Mindblock did. There are those who claim the iPOD sound is the same, HP out or LOD, but I am not one of them.

 

[qusp]

are there really people that say that ipod HP out and line out are the same???

I mean other than bitter people that either cant hear a difference or they cant afford an amp/cables

 

[tstarn06]

I've seen a few, not many, but a few. Hard to believe, I know.

 

[synaesthetic]

Not so much that people say they sound the same, but more people who say an iPod + LOD + amp is not very portable, and thus is not practical.

I'm one of these people, and I used to have the iPod/LOD/amp setup. It sounded great, but I don't miss it just using a DAP by itself with earphones. The true portability is a much nicer feature.

 

[ZoNtO]

Quote:

Originally Posted by synaesthetic /img/forum/go_quote.gif Not so much that people say they sound the same, but more people who say an iPod + LOD + amp is not very portable, and thus is not practical. I'm one of these people, and I used to have the iPod/LOD/amp setup. It sounded great, but I don't miss it just using a DAP by itself with earphones. The true portability is a much nicer feature.

That's why I have a 4GB clip though!

 

[nick_charles]

Quote:

Originally Posted by qusp /img/forum/go_quote.gif are there really people that say that ipod HP out and line out are the same??? I mean other than bitter people that either cant hear a difference or they cant afford an amp/cables

Actually Yes there are many, do a quick search you will find several threads referencing this. I am a person who does not hear a significant difference between headphone out and line-out on my 5G ipod.

I am not bitter, I own 2 different LODs , which I bought to exploit the "superiority" of the line out , many many amps , and most usefully a switch box so that I can make level matched instant comparisons. I use AKG 240s or 501s for the listening tests.

I have done this comparison many times and the result is always the same, once the levels are the same I find no significant difference. I still use the line-out as it seems to extend the battery life leaving the headphone amp on zero, but beyond that no difference.

 

[Gberg]

Well, from the posts I read regarding the LOD and HP out. There was also the convenience factor of the LOD. With the HP out you needed to adjust to the proper volume. (from what I read)

 

[qusp]

Quote:

Originally Posted by nick_charles /img/forum/go_quote.gif Actually Yes there are many, do a quick search you will find several threads referencing this. I am a person who does not hear a significant difference between headphone out and line-out on my 5G ipod. I am not bitter, I own 2 different LODs , which I bought to exploit the "superiority" of the line out , many many amps , and most usefully a switch box so that I can make level matched instant comparisons. I use AKG 240s or 501s for the listening tests. I have done this comparison many times and the result is always the same, once the levels are the same I find no significant difference. I still use the line-out as it seems to extend the battery life leaving the headphone amp on zero, but beyond that no difference.

meh.... oh well i'm sorry for your loss

for me adding an amp brought noticeable extension at both ends of the spectrum, tightened up the bass and added better soundstage and separation (and this was BEFORE the VCAP Dock) and this was with easy to drive IEM's SE530. admittedly I dont think its as dramatic as some people make it out to be, but definitely there IMO. also I dont like to have anything in my pockets anyway except change or something really tiny. I wear jeans a lot; so I carry a bag all the time anyway for my various gadgets and other bits and pieces. the VCAP took it to a whole other level and the size isnt an issue with having a bag at all times. also after making myself a truly low profile blakgate LOD and since I use a pico, the regular DIYMOD rig really isnt that large. no larger than the mobile phones of some years ago.

 

[orangehole]

Thanks for the post. I am a relative noob debating the purchase of a LOD or just sticking with my mini-mini cables which are nice but if the sound if a big difference, i am willing to try an LOD. Now I need to find a quality LOD around $30!

 

[aloksatoor]

try a sendstation as a start was my first dock.... i wud recommend the alo by ken though but at 30 buks sendstations a winner!!....