[pastabatman]

Hi All,
First post here, although I've been a lurker for many months. I want to thank everyone here for making this website the great resource it is.

I just got some higher-end cans, the AKG K271S, moving up from the Koss KSC-35. I've had them a week now, and have done about 20 hrs so far of burn-in, using what 'bass-heavy' music I could find in my collection. I presently only have a CMoy I built myself for amplification. I know this is less than most recommend, but I figured it would be ok until I get my Pimeta built.

So far, I'm rather disappointed in the bass level I'm getting out of these cans, compared to my tiny KSC-35s. I didn't necessarily expect great sounding bass, given my amp, but I figured it would be louder (relative to other frequencies) than it is. The bass just has no 'umph'. What bass there is sounds good, in isolation, but it's just too quiet compared to everything else in the music.

So, is this just because the K271s simply needs more burn-in? Or is the CMoy just not capable of driving the bass? I'm otherwise pretty happy with the sound quality (if not blown away, as I was hoping).

Thanks for any feedback,
PB

 

[Hammerstein]

I'm not sure that I'd ever expect heavy bass with a kick in the 271s. I'd expect bass that slips into the music and is a bit 'light', comparably.

 

[commando]

A little more burn-in might help, but I didn't find they needed insane burnin time. Take it up to 50 hours burn in and see how it is then.

Also, i'm not convinced that the 271s even needs an amp. They sound as good out of my PC as out of my Sonica/Pimeta combo. The Cmoy should be fine.

I find the bass of the 271s accurate, but they don't emphasise the bass overly or add bass where it doesn't exist on the track. I suspect that your old headphones emphasise the bass, and because you're used to that the 271s sound bass-shy to you.

The dance music I listen to has pretty damn good bass when the track has it, but I find with quite a few tracks that the bass isn't overly low (frequency wise). The same goes with Sarah McLachlan - some tracks have very low, strong bass, while on others it's quite weak.

If you want bass, most people say Beyers are the way to go - one model in particular - I think its the 770s, but i'm not sure. My experience with the 250-250s was that the 271s had better bass, but that isn't the concensus around here - quite the opposite in fact.

 

[pastabatman]

Thanks for the fast replies. Well, I don't think I'm a bass-head. I've been a 'budget' audiophile for many years, although I'm relatively new to the world of quality headphones. I like to think that I know a really good set of speakers when I hear them. I've always disliked heavy exaggerated bass, and always prefer it to be tight and well-balanced with the rest of the music. But I do want it to come to me, without having to actively listen for it.

Commando, it's funny you mention Sarah McLachlan. Her 'Sweet Surrender' and 'I Love You' on the Surfacing album are cuts I remembered with very deep, prounounced bass, and I've used them to compare with my home system (a Definitive Technologies bookshelf system with a sub). And, with the K271S, the bass just doesn't come through. My home system is, IMHO, very well balanced, and I've used a sound meter to get the channel levels set right, relative to listening position. I don't boost the bass in any way. I realize headphone listening is a different experience, but I wouldn't expect my preferences for bass-level to be drastically different.

I'm a little dismayed that you all don't think my Cmoy is the problem. I'll do some more burn-in and see what happens.

Thanks,
PB

 

[Snufkin]

I wasn't very happy with the K271S bass response either, even after burnin - I don't understand how some people can describe them as being bassy headphones as I found them to be far from it.

 

[commando]

Quote:

Originally posted by pastabatman Commando, it's funny you mention Sarah McLachlan. Her 'Sweet Surrender' and 'I Love You' on the Surfacing album are cuts I remembered with very deep, prounounced bass...

Oddly, i'd just come back into the office after buying that very album, before I read your post! I've just listened to those two tracks. Sweet surrender doesn't have strong or deep bass on my 271s, but "I Love You" has extremely low, though not overdone, bass, but the strength fits in well with the music. I think it's near the lower limit of my hearing, and I can definitely "feel it", rather than just hearing it. I'm very impressed by the way the 271s reproduce the bass, the slam, and how subterranianly deep it goes.

I'm starting to think that it could be your equipment. What's your source? Perhaps the Cmoy isn't up to the job of powering the 271s.

 

[commando]

Quote:

Originally posted by Snufkin I wasn't very happy with the K271S bass response either, even after burnin - I don't understand how some people can describe them as being bassy headphones as I found them to be far from it.

People do experience different headphones differently. I find the 271s to have good bass, but I found the Beyer 250-250s to have very little - which is opposite what most people find. I was using headphones that had been burned in, and had the same source/amp as well - so that's not the variable.

I guess it just comes down to personal opinion.

 

[pastabatman]

Nomad Jukebox 3 (line out) -> cheap RS mini-to-mini cable -> Cmoy -> stock AKG K271S cable -> K271S

The NJB3 is supposed to have very good sound, for an MP3 player, and I've found that too be true, compared to the audio out everything else I own, especially compared to my laptop.

 

[commando]

I'd expect even the cheap cable and the cmoy to be better than the headphone out, but have you tried it anyway?

 

[Wodgy]

Quote:

Originally posted by pastabatman So far, I'm rather disappointed in the bass level I'm getting out of these cans, compared to my tiny KSC-35s. I didn't necessarily expect great sounding bass, given my amp, but I figured it would be louder (relative to other frequencies) than it is. The bass just has no 'umph'. What bass there is sounds good, in isolation, but it's just too quiet compared to everything else in the music.

You're describing the K271S' bass perfectly -- better than I probably could, in fact. The K271S have deep bass (it does go very deep), but it's also lean. There isn't much of it, in terms of quantity. Also, there isn't a lot of "slam" (your term for this is "umph").

A better amp won't change things very much. If your current amp lacks power, you might get a little more bass, but you won't change the essential nature of these cans. (I used the K271S with a variety of amps.) They're awesome cans for classical or jazz (the best closed cans for those genres, IMHO), but for rock I think most people won't find them as satisfying as some of the other closed cans. The Beyerdynamic DT250-250 is a better choice for rock (more bass, though not as deep, but definitely more abundant, and more ooomph, but you lose a bit of the K271S' soundstaging abilities).

 

[pastabatman]

Quote:

I guess it just comes down to personal opinion.

I don't believe that is the case here. If it was the quality of the bass, I could see a lot of different opinions. But the levels I'm hearing just seem obviously too low. I wonder if there is an issue with quality control? Maybe AKG has changed the construction somehow?

 

[commando]

Quote:

Originally posted by Wodgy The Beyerdynamic DT250-250 is a better choice for rock (more bass, though not as deep, but definitely more abundant, and more ooomph, but you lose a bit of the K271S' soundstaging abilities).

A lot of people say that, that's why I tried them. I found them to be quite the opposite - the bass didn't go as low as the 271s, and it wasn't as strong. If anyone has any idea why my experience was so different from everyone else's i'd be interested in hearing it.

 

[Wodgy]

Maybe you hear bass differently than average (that's cool, there wouldn't be Grado/Sennheiser wars if everyone heard the same), since your impressions of the differences between K271S and DT250 bass are fairly opposite to most people's on these forums.

For an objective viewpoint, here are the frequency response graphs for both cans from Headroom. Notice that the K271S has a very steep bass rolloff compared to the DT250. The DT250 also has a bit of a midbass hump relative to everything else, again increasing the perceived amount of bass. In general, however, you can see that the DT250 is a more balanced can. Caveat: this a graph of the DT250-80, not the DT250-250, only because headroom doesn't provide a graph for the DT250-250.

 

[commando]

Perhaps the 250-250s I had were faulty? I could ask headroom to have a listen and see what they thought. I was quite suprised that I found them to be so poor, with the reputation they have around here.

 

[Snufkin]

As much as I hate relying on response graphs to judge a headphone, that's exactly how I perceive both headphones to sound.

I still stand by my opinion that the DT250 is a better all-round headhpone than the K271S