[apatN]

In a couple of days I hope to get my Mundorf silver gold wire. I will be using it for a new rca-rca interconnect. Mundorf SG 0,5mm is going to carry the signal and two solid core 0,8mm silver wires will be used for return. They will all be put in PTFE and than those three wires will be put into a 6mm tube covered in nylon.
I was thinking that since braiding rejects some outside noise from computers etc. (or so I've read) what the best braiding method would be. Furthermore I found this on the Qables site: "Made from pure solid core silver conductors and the special winding method of the Silvercab cable ensure a low capacitance and inductancy.".
I have read it over and over and so now I am wondering whether or not braiding will help giving you better sound quality. I am not particularly looking for better shielding, just sound quality.

So what is the best braiding method? Signal over ground, signal over return, return over signal etc. Share your knowledge.

Thanks, happy listenin'.

 

[Peyotero]

First, read (atleast)the first post in this thread. Only then go here.
Then you'll prolly need to order some more stuff (x2 of what you allready have - connectors) unless you order in bulk.
Then wait for the shippment to arive. Then happy DIYing. Then you post some pics of your master piece in here.

Good luck

 

[apatN]

I have read that first post and now I have read the Chimera as well. That guy from Chimera seems pretty obsessed.

Anyone else that wishes to shed some light on the case?

 

[Peyotero]

Good luck with the thread man . Basically you said: "Hey, I've purchased some tomatos and potatos and I've read that it makes a great chicken soup. Hence I'm wondering if I can get a tasty fruit salad with it! So what's the best way to cut those potatos and tomatos?"

 

[Bonthouse]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peyotero /img/forum/go_quote.gif Good luck with the thread man . Basically you said: "Hey, I've purchased some tomatos and potatos and I've read that it makes a great chicken soup. Hence I'm wondering if I can get a tasty fruit salad with it! So what's the best way to cut those potatos and tomatos?"

That's complete nonsense.
There are tons of people supporting one way of braiding, and there are tons of people supporting another way of braiding. He just wants to know what is best for him. Nothing less, nothing more.

 

[ThePredator]

There has yet to be any evidence put forward that craft braids of any sort reject interference, or reduce any inductance or stray capacitance.

Unless they are balanced (if they are twisted pair will work the best) it is highly dubious that any cable geometry will make any sort of audible improvement so I suggest you go with what is easiest or what looks the nicest.


The Chimera site is hardly a reputable source and his calling such braids "litz braids" is misleading at best (and complete misinformation at worst).

 

[Peyotero]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bonthouse /img/forum/go_quote.gif That's complete nonsense. There are tons of people supporting one way of braiding, and there are tons of people supporting another way of braiding. He just wants to know what is best for him. Nothing less, nothing more.

Maybe nonsense, but not complete nonsense.
First the thread is titled "Noise rejection through braiding" (noise rejection = shielding, right? I could be wrong about this).
Then he mentioned he read on the Qables site that they use some secret special winding method to "ensure a low capacitance and inductancy" (whish is perfectly fine).
The he said he doesn't particulary looking for shielding, but SQ?
Then he asks what's the best method for braiding.

I replied with that little silly analogy after he posted about the Chimera site because I realised that I didn't fully understood his question or the purpose of it. So I re-read the first post and got confused even more.

It seems that you know what he's talking about so could you please give me one or two examples of some particular braid that imroves SQ not due to (suposedly) noise rejection or atleast give me one or two names of those many people that you mentioned so I could talk to them?
I'm new to cables myself so I seek knowledge, too.

EDIT: Quote:

Originally Posted by ThePredator /img/forum/go_quote.gif There has yet to be any evidence put forward that craft braids of any sort reject interference, or reduce any inductance or stray capacitance. Unless they are balanced (if they are twisted pair will work the best) it is highly dubious that any cable geometry will make any sort of audible improvement so I suggest you go with what is easiest or what looks the nicest. The Chimera site is hardly a reputable source and his calling such braids "litz braids" is misleading at best (and complete misinformation at worst).

Yeah, it seams like there are only personal impressions of people about this and no one has done any real test. One would think that if this would actually work then audio cables would jump all over this. If only for the fact that this would cut down their manifucaturing prices + making their cables more apealing. Just make a machine that makes perfect braids all day.

 

[apatN]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peyotero /img/forum/go_quote.gif Maybe nonsense, but not complete nonsense. First the thread is titled "Noise rejection through braiding" (noise rejection = shielding, right? I could be wrong about this). Then he mentioned he read on the Qables site that they use some secret special winding method to "ensure a low capacitance and inductancy" (whish is perfectly fine). The he said he doesn't particulary looking for shielding, but SQ? Then he asks what's the best method for braiding.

I am right here...

My question (meh) is that apparently braiding changes the sound quality. So what is the best method?

 

[Peyotero]

Appearent by what? I still don't get how you came to this conclusion. Espesially if the Chimera dude is obssesed

, (since it apears that he's the only one who mentions it and shows you step by step how to do it).
You quoted Qables about winding.. This got nothing to do with braiding.

You also said you're gonna use 3 conductors for each channel . Well you don't really have much room for experiments there. There's only one way I know of you could braid 3 conductors.

Unless you're gonna braid both channels togather, that is. If that's so I'd advise you not to (but you allready knew that I wouldn't since I reffered you to this 2 cent thread in my first reply

).

Basically the first person that enters here and says : "hey here's my braiding technique. first, I mix both signals then, I this and this... I think it sounds better like that"
The moment he says that I'm gonna flame the hell out of him.
Although you could ask me not to. It's your thread after all

 

[mbd2884]

Get real, you blow this whole issue way out of proportion it's ridiculous. It's just plain stupid, buy wire with teflon coating or some other dielectric, or even simpler, litz wire. No need for that whole nonsense of using 8 wires for proper headphone cable.

2 more names to add to the ignore list...

 

[PhilS]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mbd2884 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Get real, you blow this whole issue way out of proportion it's ridiculous. It's just plain stupid, buy wire with teflon coating or some other dielectric, or even simpler, litz wire. No need for that whole nonsense of using 8 wires for proper headphone cable. 2 more names to add to the ignore list...

More "wisdom" from the No. 1 troll.

 

[slypher]

Other than the above mentioned litz braiding technique I have heard of chain braiding. When braided correctly the wires resemble chain links. I do not know if any of the 2 teckniques I listed have any benifits but someone would have to research the subject to know if it had any improvement.

 

[S J]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mbd2884 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Get real, you blow this whole issue way out of proportion it's ridiculous. It's just plain stupid, buy wire with teflon coating or some other dielectric, or even simpler, litz wire. No need for that whole nonsense of using 8 wires for proper headphone cable. 2 more names to add to the ignore list...

You could just not click on any threads that have anything to do with cables. Then you'd ignore probably 95% of the cable talk without having to waste time clicking ignore, and then telling us you ignored us. On the other hand, if you'd like to politely state your opinion, and then laugh silently when we waste our money, you're more than welcome to do that too. No need to get all fussy in every cable thread that pops up.

As for different styles of braiding, if no one noticed the difference between the different types of braiding all these years, it probably doesn't make a huge difference. If you're really concerned, wait for les_garten to finish making his test cables and reports his findings (discussed in that thread peyotero linked). As interesting as the difference may be from a technical standpoint, I have yet to find myself blasted with EMI/RFI noise in the 'incorrectly' braided cable I have... so I'm not going to freak out over it

 

[apatN]

Nah me neither. I was just looking for the most ideal method.
Guess I'll just get real with my tomatoes and potatoes and won't bother you anymore.

 

[slypher]

From reading Chimeras web site the benafits of the litz braid claim to be an increased bandwidth, lower capacitance and DC resistance.

The site says the technique of litz braiding solid core wire was developed in germany in 1930 and its popularity spread from there. It also says Western Electric used litz braided wire for military in 1940.

It goes on to say the reason the litz braid is not common today is because it is costly/complex to manufacture and has been replaced by a pseudo or alternative litz wich is sipley twisting multiple wires together in one direction.