[rsaavedra]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snake Meat should be an addition to a greatly balanced diet but thanks to marketing by the meat industry, social pressures and "ego" meat has taken over too large a portion in most people's diets. And this is just one of the reasons that there currently are huge health issues of diabeties, cancer and a number of other ailments.

So you are saying eating meat in excess causes diabetes, cancer, and a number of other ailments?

What a stretch. Where did you find the "scientific" papers making such claims?

 

[cpw]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stephonovich You gave up potatoes?! Whatever for? Only reason I can see giving 'em up is if you're on the Atkins diet, which, IMO is crap anyway, but I digress. Taters is good, master, oh yes...

Actually, it's not just an Atkins thing. I'm on the Zone Diet which tells you that potatoes (as well as rice and bread and even carrots) cause nasty insulin spikes in your bloodstream that tells your body to store excess calories as fat and makes it impossible for your body to access body fat as a source of energy. Very insidious foods indeed.
I've had to rely on some meats as a source of lean protein. You can only eat so much soy and eggg whites!
Zone diet is working for me so far. It's very sustainable over the long haul and is created through balance of protein, friendly carbs, and mono unsaturated fats. It'd be tough for me to give up meat though I've been eating lots of fish. I understand Pinkie's revulsion. I just try not to think about it. I got too many other things to worry about.
CPW

 

[Kid-A]

Quote:

Originally Posted by PinkFloyd I'm a meat eater, have been my entire life, but was absolutely sickened by program I watched the other evening. In the UK alone billions of animals are killed every year in order that our appetites are satisfied.... the chickens, for example, are injected with growth enhancing hormones and are packed into cages where they don't even have room to turn around, let alone walk. I watched thousands of freshly hatched chicks being thrown on a conveyor belt which conveyed them to a "shredding machine" these poor things were shredded alive minutes after they were hatched (under 24 hour daylight conditions) because they didn't make the "grade" (something to do with the size of their beaks) Pigs (more intelligent than dogs) are crammed into indoor breeding grounds and spend their "existance" back to back with other pigs unable to walk, turn around, lay down........ basically they are considered "products" and have no right to a life. I'm so sad I don't want to write anymore about the atrocities so called "civilised" mankind is committing to our fellow inhabitants of this earth. The visions from that documentary will haunt me for the rest of my life.... I'll never eat another piece of meat..... I love a burger but, now I know the suffering those poor creatures endure I'll never eat another one..... ever. Look around your local supermarket and then imagine the same the world over...... we are condoning the mass murder of BILLIONS of animals yet we are upset when a human is run over by a car? What is going down here???????

Just buy Organic and Free Range then. It's easily avoided

 

[stet]

pinkie's posting the Smiths lyrics got me thinking about songs that have pushed people toward vegetarianism ... If anybody else has one:
http://www6.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=107342

 

[Earwax]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lisa Haven't read the whole thread. Just want to say that I agree that the way animals are treated is horrible. I eat meat maybe three times a week. Get it from butcher in a nearby town that sells *insert the english word for 'scharrelvlees' here*. Means he sells meat from animals that have been treated to a certain standard. I only eat from the cow. I don't trust the chickens they sell in the supermarket that are supposed to be treated better. Don't know if the cows I eat are treated good enough but it is at least a step in the right direction...

Do you mean Kosher foods? I really don't know much about it, but I read something recently that said part of the Kosher certification process is inspecting farm conditions for clean and humane treatment of animals.

I stopped eating most meat about 8 years ago, but I still eat chicken and fish. I don't think I could ever maintain a healthy diet as a vegan, nor even as a true vegetarian, but I had to draw the line somewhere, so I decided to stop eating mammals. That's the best balance I could come up with between my sensibilities about the treatment of farm animals and a healthy diet. I guess I can tolerate a bit of cruelty towards fish and birds more easily than a pig or cow.

With many studies coming out saying red meat is bad for us I get the feeling that nature is pushing us towards more responsible eating practices anyway.

Some people have pointed out that nature is cruel, but I see our (mankind) role on this planet as lessing the amount of cruelty or at the very least, not adding to it.

 

[Earwax]

Quote:

Originally Posted by rsaavedra So you are saying eating meat in excess causes diabetes, cancer, and a number of other ailments? What a stretch. Where did you find the "scientific" papers making such claims?

30 seconds with Google will provide an almost endless number of such references like Why red meat raises flags

Heart desease patients (both my parents for example) have been told to cut down on red meats and increase vegetables for years.

There's also some studies to the contray, but they seem to all come frommeat industry sources.

 

[MD1032]

I've seen that PETA video before, I'm sure this one is about the same. It's sickening, yes, but it hasn't changed my diet. I'm a meat lover and always will be. I don't really care how the meat gets there to be honest, nor do I want to find out. God put chickens and cows and stuff on this earth for our use and consumption. We're called omnivores for a reason. By not eating meat you're depriving your diet of all kinds of good protein and iron and other essential vitamins and minerals. Plus, it's damn good!!

 

[eyeteeth]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kunwar Another funny thing is that however hard we try until 1/2 the world's population decides to stop eating chicken or meat it won't make much difference at all. It is kind of like everyone here in Oz is worried about the environment when US, India and China are the 3 worst greenhouse gas emitters and they do not care much. 20 million people won't even make a difference when 2.5 billion are already negating the changes made by the small number here.

You may be numerically correct in that one person doesn't make a difference but I still do what I think is right regardless of the seemingly insignificant impact on a wide scale. I feel a significant impact on a personal scale in following my own way.

 

[Snake]

Quote:

Originally Posted by rsaavedra So you are saying eating meat in excess causes diabetes, cancer, and a number of other ailments? What a stretch. Where did you find the "scientific" papers making such claims?

Cancer, yes, there is developing proof and scientific papers based upon (mostly Japanese) studies. As the Japanese diet is changing over to match the typical American diet, adding much more red meat than is classically typical for the mainstream Japanese individual, their cancer and general disease rate is increasing.

The Japanese never had much red meat in their diet due to the grazing requirements of cattle and a lack of open grazing space available. The typical Japanese diet consisted of grains (a large percentage of rice), vegetables and seafood.

As the Japanese culture changed to more closely match American standards Kobe beef became a large commerical commodity and herds of all styles were introduced to supply the demand of both Kobe and 'regular' meat. The Japanese started adding larger quantities of red meat into their diet as it became more widely available and affordable to them but cancer rates started spiking. Scientists noticed this spike and took the opportunity to study this relatively unique situation - a social climate where dietary intake was changing and they could study the broad change.

This article just came out by the American Medical Association:

http://jama.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/full/293/2/233

however you must purchase it in order to read it. So here are some summaries:

http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache...t+cancer&hl=en

http://www.ccac-accc.ca/news.asp?frontpage=190

Now note this last page - "A study last summer by researchers in Japan noted that a jump in colon cancer cases there coincided with an increase in red meat consumption that began 20 years earlier"

I did not know that the AMA just (literally just - last month) came out with a new study, however the situation has been talked about for almost 2 decades.

Another scientific study:

http://cebp.aacrjournals.org/cgi/con...ull/11/10/1019

 

[mbriant]

I wonder if red meat itself is the real culprit here ... or is it the chemicals and medicines we feed/inject our cattle with?

 

[Snake]

Maybe a little bit of both. But red meat is a serious issue, for instance it is known that if you cook red meat "excessively" (well to very well done) or via too high a heat (charcoal grilling) you carbonize the proteins and cause them to form cancer-causing substances. According to the chemical scientists you should eat a steak medium-well - less cooked the meat does not get hot enough to properly kill all the bacteria, more cooked and you carbonize the proteins.

And the antibiotics that are being injected into cattle to increase their "yield", along with the growth hormones, is beginning to (scientifically) show problems with changing the biology of humans as it effects the immune and lympatic systems.

 

[john_jcb]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snake Maybe a little bit of both. But red meat is a serious issue, for instance it is known that if you cook red meat "excessively" (well to very well done) or via too high a heat (charcoal grilling) you carbonize the proteins and cause them to form cancer-causing substances. According to the chemical scientists you should eat a steak medium-well - less cooked the meat does not get hot enough to properly kill all the bacteria, more cooked and you carbonize the proteins.

I think the recommendation to cook beef medium well only applies to ground meat. All harmful bacteria lives on the surface of the meat. Ground meat needs to be cooked more throughly as grinding mixes the bacteria throughout the meat.

 

[archosman]

"bacon tastes good... pork chops tast good..."

 

[Snake]

Regretfully no, it applies to solid cuts like steak as well. Only with medium-well do things like Mad Cow get killed, and for instance in some chain restaurants it is a requirement that the chef never produce a steak less than medium well done to remove the possibly of lawsuit via communicable diseases.

However, all is not great as even the medium well temperature changes the meat:

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articl...23/ai_50039388

Also note that it is illiegal in some states to now talk ill of the meat processing industry - yes, your freedom of speech as been compromised by corporate entities and the government is all for it. Apparently Oprah Winfrey was sued by the meat industry for simply saying that Mad Cow has made her - personally, just her - stop eating red meat. They sued for damages against their business (and lost, thankfully)

Here's a bit of (non-scientific) reading:

http://www.mindfully.org/Food/Nuking...Dirty-Food.htm

 

[kunwar]

Quote:

Originally Posted by eyeteeth You may be numerically correct in that one person doesn't make a difference but I still do what I think is right regardless of the seemingly insignificant impact on a wide scale. I feel a significant impact on a personal scale in following my own way.

Well do enjoy the food as I am enjoying mine. I don't have any qualms about eating meat and shall do so without any effect on my conscience. I unfortunately do not belong to the Green or leftist side of thinking. This of course in no way implies that you or your views are Greenie or leftism based.