ablaze
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kaiwei, where're you going to get the 9632 from, and how much?
Nice amp for computer sound card source?
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blessingx
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Another FLAC user here. I think one of the problems of comparing CDP and computer based systems is discussing soundcards/DACs at the low end. When I talk to studio people they group the Revolution and the like as "those gaming cards". Some of the division is over recording, not playback, but I doubt all. So are we talking a $100 card versus a $100 cdp, $250 for each, higher? Or a $100 card versus $500 player? Course this is ignoring the computer cost (also possibly receiver, etc.). Just a thought.
Guyferd
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Markl:
I disagree. I feel a good budget $400 player will outperform many many soundcards, again for the reasons I've been stating.
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400 dollar outperform many soundcard? and we're talking about those terratec and m-audio revo which goes for less than 200 dollars. SO if you want to compare you need cdplayer of about the same cost. PLUS, you need to include the cost of all your cds.
Add together, your cdplayer setup can easily exceed 1k. With those soundcard, you can download the songs and able to enjoy music for free. In the long run, soundcard is better.
But if you are going for pure sound quality, get cdplayer. But if you must, get 1k cdp to start off. 400 dollar cdp won't offer that much improvement.
I am now using marantz cdp. Though sound quality is better.. I am beginning to regret about the $$ that need to be spent on the cds. Unless you have alot of cds to start with, it's not worth trying to build your cd collection from scratch.
End of story
I disagree. I feel a good budget $400 player will outperform many many soundcards, again for the reasons I've been stating.
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400 dollar outperform many soundcard? and we're talking about those terratec and m-audio revo which goes for less than 200 dollars. SO if you want to compare you need cdplayer of about the same cost. PLUS, you need to include the cost of all your cds.
Add together, your cdplayer setup can easily exceed 1k. With those soundcard, you can download the songs and able to enjoy music for free. In the long run, soundcard is better.
But if you are going for pure sound quality, get cdplayer. But if you must, get 1k cdp to start off. 400 dollar cdp won't offer that much improvement.
I am now using marantz cdp. Though sound quality is better.. I am beginning to regret about the $$ that need to be spent on the cds. Unless you have alot of cds to start with, it's not worth trying to build your cd collection from scratch.
End of story
kaiwei
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Erm ok...I don't agree about the buying CD part, I'm more about the ease of NOT changing CDs by storing them onto your HD. (The ones you owned mind you)
However, the point about $400 CDP vs what $40 creative soundcard is quite valid.
However, the point about $400 CDP vs what $40 creative soundcard is quite valid.
markl
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Quote:
The real issue is the utility of sticking a $300 amp on a $40 soundcard, not comparing a good budget CDP to a cheap soundcard. Original poster (sorry again GetCool) seems to have $300 or so to spend upgrading his system, could go toward an amp or something else. As I said, my advice is to forgo the amp for now, and put that $$ toward good budget source, *then* worry about amp. Question to ask is am I trying to upgrade sound quality or do I want an amp for sake of having an amp? It would be a shame if GetCool comes back with his new amp and complains that "amps do nothing" because jump in sound quality he was expecting was hampered by his mp3s played back via computer sound card.
Quote:
No, soundcard is *cheaper*. You get what you pay for. Again, if sound quality is of no concern, and budget is limited, more power to the mp3 crowd. You've got to get your music somehow I suppose, it is an addiction. Cheers. Quote:
Listening to ripped mp3s on an stand-alone player virtually defeats the purpose. If one is going to stick with burned mp3's, then no, a CDP can't offer much in terms of boost in sound quality. Gotta buy those CDs.
Mark
| However, the point about $400 CDP vs what $40 creative soundcard is quite valid. |
The real issue is the utility of sticking a $300 amp on a $40 soundcard, not comparing a good budget CDP to a cheap soundcard. Original poster (sorry again GetCool) seems to have $300 or so to spend upgrading his system, could go toward an amp or something else. As I said, my advice is to forgo the amp for now, and put that $$ toward good budget source, *then* worry about amp. Question to ask is am I trying to upgrade sound quality or do I want an amp for sake of having an amp? It would be a shame if GetCool comes back with his new amp and complains that "amps do nothing" because jump in sound quality he was expecting was hampered by his mp3s played back via computer sound card.
Quote:
| Add together, your cdplayer setup can easily exceed 1k. With those soundcard, you can download the songs and able to enjoy music for free. In the long run, soundcard is better. |
No, soundcard is *cheaper*. You get what you pay for. Again, if sound quality is of no concern, and budget is limited, more power to the mp3 crowd. You've got to get your music somehow I suppose, it is an addiction. Cheers. Quote:
| I am now using marantz cdp. Though sound quality is better.. I am beginning to regret about the $$ that need to be spent on the cds. |
Listening to ripped mp3s on an stand-alone player virtually defeats the purpose. If one is going to stick with burned mp3's, then no, a CDP can't offer much in terms of boost in sound quality. Gotta buy those CDs.
Mark
Guyferd
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No No mark..
I am using all original cds on my marantz and those 192 or even 128kbps out of soundcard
but I can vouch that the difference isn't night and day. Especially with well-ripped(better still in lossless format) songs. Infact it is easily on par with cd player on 200-300 dollars range
I am using all original cds on my marantz and those 192 or even 128kbps out of soundcard
but I can vouch that the difference isn't night and day. Especially with well-ripped(better still in lossless format) songs. Infact it is easily on par with cd player on 200-300 dollars range
fewtch
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The comparison between CD players and soundcard playback (I assume this would either be lossless, or music 'ripped' from CD's) still seems specious to me.
I've been accused of going on specs, but some here have been going on what I take to be guesswork, generalizing to "all soundcards" and etc. based on noise inside a computer (gee, ever heard of shielding?). Price comparisons don't cut it either, as it isn't uncommon for even mid-priced CD players to have fairly crummy DACs (believe me, I've heard some).
Bottom line, making generalizations like this is foolish -- get a quality soundcard and compare it (preferably using DBT) with a quality CD player.
Edit -- hard disk-based playback should have at least some theoretical benefits -- one of which is nearly perfect error correction, another being the potential for total freedom from jitter (the data not being read off a spinning optical disc at a slow rate of speed, there shouldn't be any timing issues whatsoever -- hard drives are thousands of times faster than CD access).
I've been accused of going on specs, but some here have been going on what I take to be guesswork, generalizing to "all soundcards" and etc. based on noise inside a computer (gee, ever heard of shielding?). Price comparisons don't cut it either, as it isn't uncommon for even mid-priced CD players to have fairly crummy DACs (believe me, I've heard some).
Bottom line, making generalizations like this is foolish -- get a quality soundcard and compare it (preferably using DBT) with a quality CD player.
Edit -- hard disk-based playback should have at least some theoretical benefits -- one of which is nearly perfect error correction, another being the potential for total freedom from jitter (the data not being read off a spinning optical disc at a slow rate of speed, there shouldn't be any timing issues whatsoever -- hard drives are thousands of times faster than CD access).
markl
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Poor GetCool.
Sorry again for the distractions and taking your thread off-course.
Beyond this point, maybe if people want to debate merits of stand-alone CDPs vs. computer sound cards, maybe that should be a separate topic in the "sources" section.
Mark
Beyond this point, maybe if people want to debate merits of stand-alone CDPs vs. computer sound cards, maybe that should be a separate topic in the "sources" section.
Mark
Sean H
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Quote:
This is probably a really dumb question, but just to clarify- if you are playing a CD via a computer with an optical output to an external DAC you then have possible error/jitter problems, right?
| Originally posted by fewtch Edit -- hard disk-based playback should have at least some theoretical benefits -- one of which is nearly perfect error correction, another being the potential for total freedom from jitter (the data not being read off a spinning optical disc at a slow rate of speed, there shouldn't be any timing issues whatsoever -- hard drives are thousands of times faster than CD access). |
This is probably a really dumb question, but just to clarify- if you are playing a CD via a computer with an optical output to an external DAC you then have possible error/jitter problems, right?
GetCool
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Quote:
Mark, have you been listening to what I've been saying? I am not using MP3s! You seem to always associate a computer-based audio system with MP3s, which is a very large assumption to make. As I said earlier, I can take an audio CD, rip it and encode it into a format that 100% identical to the source. Plus, I can then burn a CD from the original cuesheet and have a perfect copy of the original disc. Have you heard of lossless codecs? They are a popular solution among enthusiasts.
And for the record I don't have a set budget I am going to spend on an upgrade. I want to spend as little money as possible to improve the output of my sound card so that I can drive my headphones sufficiently without sacrificing sound quality. This is not about sound cards vs. CD players... that is for the source forum. This is about amps, which is why I've posted here. And this is definitely not about "having an amp for the sake of having an amp." Sound cards generally do not drive high-impedence cans very well. An amp will help with this.
Quote:
Thanks for the suggestion, fewtch, you are the only one who seems to want to answer my original question so far.
| Originally posted by markl The real issue is the utility of sticking a $300 amp on a $40 soundcard, not comparing a good budget CDP to a cheap soundcard. Original poster (sorry again GetCool) seems to have $300 or so to spend upgrading his system, could go toward an amp or something else. As I said, my advice is to forgo the amp for now, and put that $$ toward good budget source, *then* worry about amp. Question to ask is am I trying to upgrade sound quality or do I want an amp for sake of having an amp? It would be a shame if GetCool comes back with his new amp and complains that "amps do nothing" because jump in sound quality he was expecting was hampered by his mp3s played back via computer sound card. No, soundcard is *cheaper*. You get what you pay for. Again, if sound quality is of no concern, and budget is limited, more power to the mp3 crowd. You've got to get your music somehow I suppose, it is an addiction. Cheers. Listening to ripped mp3s on an stand-alone player virtually defeats the purpose. If one is going to stick with burned mp3's, then no, a CDP can't offer much in terms of boost in sound quality. Gotta buy those CDs. Mark |
Mark, have you been listening to what I've been saying? I am not using MP3s! You seem to always associate a computer-based audio system with MP3s, which is a very large assumption to make. As I said earlier, I can take an audio CD, rip it and encode it into a format that 100% identical to the source. Plus, I can then burn a CD from the original cuesheet and have a perfect copy of the original disc. Have you heard of lossless codecs? They are a popular solution among enthusiasts.
And for the record I don't have a set budget I am going to spend on an upgrade. I want to spend as little money as possible to improve the output of my sound card so that I can drive my headphones sufficiently without sacrificing sound quality. This is not about sound cards vs. CD players... that is for the source forum. This is about amps, which is why I've posted here. And this is definitely not about "having an amp for the sake of having an amp." Sound cards generally do not drive high-impedence cans very well. An amp will help with this.
Quote:
| Yes -- one of the Mint or Meta42's linked to in the "Mall-Fi" section of the board would probably be just fine (not sure about the situation with high impedance cans, but you could ask). Although most of them are geared more toward portable use, they'll work just fine with a PC soundcard and the right adapter cable (and provide high quality output too). You can get the Headsave Transit for around $99 plus shipping, with the DC jack option if you don't want to use batteries. Note -- I'm completely unaffiliated with any of these sellers, altho Norm (the guy who runs Headsave) was excellent about answering my detailed and boring questions over the course of several Emails. |
Thanks for the suggestion, fewtch, you are the only one who seems to want to answer my original question so far.
SteeleBlayde
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Your best bet is probably to sell the terratec and get the M-Audio Revo. The Revo with the Audigy2 is the best combination available at the moment. As for the amp, you may want to look into the Mall-Fi section here. I believe aos makes the Sostenuto-1 PDAC. Its basically a DAC combined with an amp, and its portable to boot. I've been told it sounds similar to a META42 as well. It should sound amazing if you plug it into the digital outs of your sound cards. You can probably ask aos to max it out for you as well, maybe stack the buffers to improve sound and all that good stuff. On another note, maybe he will add an additional input so you can run two sound cards into it without having to switch the cabling all the time. And if you dont need something portable, you should see if he can make a custom design for you that can plug into a wallwart.
One thing to keep in mind though, the PPA is being developed at the moment by PPL, Tangent, Morsel, and Kurtw. http://elvencraft.com/ppa
aos has plans of making a PDAC daughterboard for the PPA so you may want to take that into consideration. The PPA should stack up VERY well, I believe team PPA has beein doing A/B tests with it and a Sugden Headmaster!!
One thing to keep in mind though, the PPA is being developed at the moment by PPL, Tangent, Morsel, and Kurtw. http://elvencraft.com/ppa
aos has plans of making a PDAC daughterboard for the PPA so you may want to take that into consideration. The PPA should stack up VERY well, I believe team PPA has beein doing A/B tests with it and a Sugden Headmaster!!
herbie
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Quote:
Does selling the Terratec make any sense? Since Both analog and digital output are pretty good. Digital out is said to be about as good as it gets.
Herbie
| Originally posted by SteeleBlayde Your best bet is probably to sell the terratec and get the M-Audio Revo. |
Does selling the Terratec make any sense? Since Both analog and digital output are pretty good. Digital out is said to be about as good as it gets.
Herbie
Hajime
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No, it doesn't make any sense in my opinion. If you're going to use an amplifier then the Terratec is a good card and is said to be at the same quality or higher than the Revolution.
SteeleBlayde
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Well then keep your terratec and consider all else that I have said in regard to amps and DACs!
GetCool
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Quote:
Will do - thanks. I'm actually considering building my own META42 now, but I will consider that Sostenuto. BTW is it not currently in production? There is no longer an ad for it on Mall-Fi it seems.
| Originally posted by SteeleBlayde Well then keep your terratec and consider all else that I have said in regard to amps and DACs!
|
Will do - thanks. I'm actually considering building my own META42 now, but I will consider that Sostenuto. BTW is it not currently in production? There is no longer an ad for it on Mall-Fi it seems.
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