[Jasper994]

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Originally Posted by Spyro On a lighter note....what is the difference or correlation in "soundstage" versus intricate and distinct separation of instruments (left, right, far left, far right, etc)? Thanks.

I think the only real correlation is the distance between instruments in the soundstage. The exception being if the soundstage is compressed in height, width, or depth in a manner where one is disproportionate to one or both of the others. Think of it like a 3D picture. Soundstage represents the total size of the picture, however big or small. Imaging defines the placement of each thing inside of the soundstage. If imaging is accurate, things will be placed properly in the picture and it will be easy to identify where something is placed. If imaging is poor, it will be difficult to determine exactly where something is in the soundstage. In the case of the Super.Fi 5 Pro, I feel the soundstage is expansive, but that the imaging is less precise than the E4 which has a smaller soundstage but better imaging. If separation is good, two or more things that are close together will maintain their individuality. Poor separation will blend sounds together.

 

[Jasper994]

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Originally Posted by 3805 The most important difference imo that most people are omitting is that all IEMs really don't have much (if any) response over 16khz. [This includes the overblown specifications of sony ex71, senn cx300, etc]. Now depending on the person, this may or may not be a huge difference. Some of us (this used to be an estimated average, but has since changed) can hear up to 20,000hz. The average listener can hear up to 18000hz. And then there are the unlucky folks who can only hear up to ~16khz, or less. Thus, when one has an opinion about the performance of IEMs, it greatly depends on how they perceive sound in the first place. As for me, I don't think ANY IEM can possesss the high-end presence of a fairly decent dynamic, open headphone [say, the grado sr-60]. And I can hear up to about 20khz. Others can sense no difference or 'negligible difference'.

You're right, they don't. Despite this, I don't hear huge differences in the sound, and I can hear up to ~19khz. I think this does affect the airyness to a certain degree, but I think the bigger issue there is the closed nature of the IEM.

 

[luckybaer]

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Originally Posted by Jasper994 My apologies, I think I came off much harsher than I intended. After reading your post (in particular where you say there's no contest between IEMs and "buds" and "closed cans") and the guy with the KSC75, I was on a bit of a rant. Here's the part I was talking about specifically. The thing is, IEMs CAN produce hard hitting bass to rival any headphone. The only difference is that you won't feel it hitting the outsides of your ears and head. If you measure bass impact based upon how much air it pushes against the side of your head and outer ear, I suppose you have a point, but I don't think that's an accurate measure. I do agree that the soundstage is smaller, but that's really the IEMs only disadvantage to a closed headphone. Even there, I think the SF5P comes pretty close to most closed headphones in soundstage. Open headphones gain an advantage by having an open and airy sound. I haven't tried them, but I'd guess that some of the hybrid IEMs that are not sealed can give a bigger soundstage, perhaps rivaling an open headphone. Again, I do apologize for coming off as a condesending jerk. My intent was actually to rant more than attack, but I can see how my comment came off more as an attack. -Aaron

I apologize for being so easily irritated. I guess I'd like to know which IEMs can give you that bass that rivals something like the DT 770. That's probably an unfair comparison, like asking which closed can gives the isolation of a good IEM. If it exists, it must be a high-end model that I haven't tried. The EBs had lots of bass, but the rest of the spectrum was so-so to my ears. I found the Pros similar to E4c, but I thought the E4c was more comfy.

I'm looking for something that has the bass of my DT 770 (or if not as impactful, close to it and still clean and punchy) and the mids (excellent) and highs (rolled off, but that is great for me, because if they weren't, I'd get a headache!) of the E4c. It could be an IEM or a "regular" phone. Recommendations?

 

[Jasper994]

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Originally Posted by luckybaer I apologize for being so easily irritated. I guess I'd like to know which IEMs can give you that bass that rivals something like the DT 770. That's probably an unfair comparison, like asking which closed can gives the isolation of a good IEM. If it exists, it must be a high-end model that I haven't tried. The EBs had lots of bass, but the rest of the spectrum was so-so to my ears. I found the Pros similar to E4c, but I thought the E4c was more comfy. I'm looking for something that has the bass of my DT 770 (or if not as impactful, close to it and still clean and punchy) and the mids (excellent) and highs (rolled off, but that is great for me, because if they weren't, I'd get a headache!) of the E4c. It could be an IEM or a "regular" phone. Recommendations?

With a bit less quantity, the UE-10. The E500 from what I remember. If I understand correctly what UE is trying to do with the Triple X I'd veture to guess that it will as well.

I think the EB has more bass and is at least as impactful. I agree it's rather colored, but I thought the mids and treble were quite nice after burn-in (the bass driver seems to have tightened up and the mids and treble came through more clearly). How many hours do you/did you have on yours?

 

[luckybaer]

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Originally Posted by Jasper994 With a bit less quantity, the UE-10. The E500 from what I remember. If I understand correctly what UE is trying to do with the Triple X I'd veture to guess that it will as well. I think the EB has more bass and is at least as impactful. I agree it's rather colored, but I thought the mids and treble were quite nice after burn-in (the bass driver seems to have tightened up and the mids and treble came through more clearly). How many hours do you/did you have on yours?

I didn't get an opportunity to burn them in all the way. I had to return them within 14 days if I wanted to get my money back. I wore them for about 4 hours a day for a whole work week. If I could have afforded it, I would have liked to keep either the Pro or the EB. I liked them both as well as the E4c, but the E4c just sounded nicer to my ears and were more comfy. I couldn't justify to the "boss" (wife) spending almost $600 on 3 pairs of what she thinks are the same as buds. LOL.

EDIT: I know it is sacrilege, but I messed around with the EQ on iTunes, and boosted the bass of the E4c ever so slightly and goosed the highs a tad - enough to clear up cymbals, but not enough to make my ears itchy inside. I really like the sound now, and I am using them for music more than my DT 770.

 

[Jasper994]

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Originally Posted by luckybaer I didn't get an opportunity to burn them in all the way. I had to return them within 14 days if I wanted to get my money back. I wore them for about 4 hours a day for a whole work week. If I could have afforded it, I would have liked to keep either the Pro or the EB. I liked them both as well as the E4c, but the E4c just sounded nicer to my ears and were more comfy. I couldn't justify to the "boss" (wife) spending almost $600 on 3 pairs of what she thinks are the same as buds. LOL. EDIT: I know it is sacrilege, but I messed around with the EQ on iTunes, and boosted the bass of the E4c ever so slightly and goosed the highs a tad - enough to clear up cymbals, but not enough to make my ears itchy inside. I really like the sound now, and I am using them for music more than my DT 770.

Yeah, I dig the E4 a lot too.

To bad you had to send the EB back, it can be a lot of fun and is great for watching action films and listening to music with sick bass lines. I like the 5 pro a lot too, and there are times when I will generally choose it over the E4 (portably with iPod and no amp if listening to non-acoustic music) despite the fact that I generally like the E4 more. Amped (portably or at home), there's generally no contest, I prefer the E4. I agree, the E4 is really comfy! Interestingly enough, I think the E4 gets as much time in my ears as the UE-10. This is often due to comfort, but sometimes I prefer the sound signature of the E4 as well.