[chim]

I'm just now getting into headphone amps : I've owned a pair of Sennheiser HD570, Sennheiser HD590s, B&O a8s and finally Alessandro MS-1s with vwaps. I bought the first three with no research whatsoever, and thought I was doing very good despite conflicting reviews on head-fi. Head-fi convinced me to get an amp, but I was very low on funds and purchased a Electric Avenues PocketAMP V2.

Honestly, I can't hear a difference with the Pocketamp V2. I am using either my sound blaster audigy (next upgrade will be an EMU 0404) -> pocketamp2 -> alessandro ms-1s

or lately my iriver ihp120-> pocketamp2-> ms-1s with the amp connected to the headphone out, cause the line-out sounds a bit "dead". I just really don't hear a difference in much of anything, the bass and mids and highs just sound pretty much identical to me. I'm kinda bummed out because i spent 62 bucks on an amp, and now I'm wary on anything else. But I know that there's gotta be a reason everybody uses headphone amps, and currently I have my eyes set on a Gilmore Lite. Will these actually make a difference, or do I just have tin ears? (I'm 19, and usually go to a concert once every 2 months or so, so i don't think my hearing is shot just yet).

Thanks for reading

 

[Ingo]

I am considering buying either a MS-1+Gilmore Lite, or a SR225+Gilmore Lite setup. I'm pretty sure the SR225 deserves a Gilmore Lite or better, but will the quality/price ratio of the MS-1+GL be higher or lower than the forementioned setup?

Edit: Soured by a 1212m, unmodded.

 

[ReDVsion]

Sometimes amplification differences can seem really, REALLY subtle at first. You've got fairly efficient cans there, so it's not surprising. How much the sound will change is really quite dependant on the headphone. Don't knock it yet; keep listening to your headphones with the amp for a while, and then after a week or so, switch back. See if you notice a change then. Sometimes a subtle difference can still be an appreciable one.

 

[ns6490]

It's often tough to make the distinction, and perceived differences are sometimes really due to volume differences. Give the amp a fair shake, but if you find that it doesn't add much to your enjoyment of music, it's probably better to spend that money on music instead of sinking more and more money into upgrading your source, amp, interconnects, etc. Go with your ears.

My personal experience is that what other people described as huge differences between amps sounded pretty darn subtle to my ears. Of course this is entirely subjective, but for me, the marginal benefit wasn't worth the cost of upgrading. But then again, I'm not an audiophile. I care about getting good sound, but only up to a point, and I'm not a detail fanatic. The stuff I care about the most is the relationships between the notes.

 

[MetalManCPA]

I'm awaiting the delivery of my Pocket Amp2 V2. I really purchased it for portable listening, to use with my Zen Micro and Future Sonics EM3's. I also just purchased Audio Technica ATH-A900 cans for home. I'm not really planning to use the amp at home, as I purchased the A900's fro the specific reason that an amp was not needed for them to sound good. Actually, unamped, the A900's sound phenominal using the Zen Micro as a source.

It's all in your ears. Whatever you ultimately get was only from guidance and expereince from others. I realized after spending >$500 this past month guided in large part by the things I read on Head-Fi that the final decision was mine. If I didn't like what I purchased, it was by no fault of anything I read here. It just so happens that I am very happy with my 3 new headphones (A900's, EM3's, and Bang & Olufsen A8's).

 

[jpr703]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ingo I am considering buying either a MS-1+Gilmore Lite, or a SR225+Gilmore Lite setup. I'm pretty sure the SR225 deserves a Gilmore Lite or better, but will the quality/price ratio of the MS-1+GL be higher or lower than the forementioned setup? Edit: Soured by a 1212m, unmodded.

The Gilmore amps have a lot of synergy with Grados. I have a Lite with the Power Supply and it makes a big difference with both my 225s and my 325i's.

 

[Kirosia]

Well, the audigy series isn't very respected around here, and the IHP line out just plain sucks IMO. (Tried it w/ an sr-71 and HD650 recently, concluded it was horriblly bright and tinny) Also, I've never noticed a BIG difference when amping grados through a portable; only subtle. (Except in cases when the portable's line was really obviously superior to the h.out) The IHP h.out -> grado is actually pretty decent though. All this IME only.

 

[chim]

after i upgrade to an EMU 0404, should I purchase a gilmore lite and see if there's any difference? Or should I just chalk myself up as an unaudiophile and save all the money I can.

 

[ReDVsion]

Quote:

Originally Posted by chim after i upgrade to an EMU 0404, should I purchase a gilmore lite and see if there's any difference? Or should I just chalk myself up as an unaudiophile and save all the money I can.

Well, obviously the latter will be preferable, at least until you go for bigger and better headphones.

 

[Earwax]

Quote:

Originally Posted by chim after i upgrade to an EMU 0404, should I purchase a gilmore lite and see if there's any difference? Or should I just chalk myself up as an unaudiophile and save all the money I can.

I have a DIY Gilmore dynamic amp (and the Lite is an upgrade from the design I used) and I've heard the Pocket Amp 2. And it's safe to say that the Gilmore is a major step up from the PA2 in sound.

For what the PA2 is, high battery life, small size and low cost, it really isn't even fair to compare the two.

 

[saint.panda]

chim, if this is your first amp purchase then you can rest assured that you wouldn't be the first to feel this way. One reason is that with more experience you know where to listen for the differences and another unfortunate reason is that people tend to overhype amps with statements like "night and day difference". Especially if you are using the amp with a portable souce and a rather "easy to drive" pair of headphones, the improvements are often marginal. Right now I'm sitting at the computer with a Sony D211, a vintage portable cd player, and depending on the headphone I can hardly tell the difference between the player's headphone out and it's line out feeding into a Porta Corda (portable amp). As has been said, the MS-1 supposedly are a rather easy to drive pair headphone. Easy to drive can mean that it doesn't take a lot of power to drive them or that they don't scale a lot given better amplification or both. I have not heard the MS-1 though.

You said that the mids, highs and bass still sound the same, which doesn't have to be bad things at first since the amp obviously doesn't mess with the headphones' frequency response. It's easier to tell what a bad amp does rather than what a good amp does. The best amps are those that seem to lack a sound signature - the ideal "wire with gain". Still, there should be some improvements, right?

Here are a couple of things you should give try when discerning differences between your portable player's internal amp and the new outboard amp you bought. You should do the tests with your best source to eliminate a potential bottleneck.

Basically, better amp means having more superior control over the music and outputting in intended way (=as is on the recording).

1. Play a piece of music with a big dynamical range. Some orchestral pieces (Mahler for instance) have really quite passage that quickly rise to ear-shattering sound volumes. Your new amp should outline the contrast between quiet and loud better.

2. Play a fast piece of music with a lot of distinct but lound notes, e.g. drums or quick unisono bursts of a big band. Look out for the notes' attack and how hard the notes are hitting. Also with a fast piece of music, does the new amp have seemingly better "timing"? How long does it take for the notes to appear and disappear?

3. Play some piece with low bass and observe if there's better control with the new amp.

4. Well-recorded cymbal crashes can tell you a lot about your equipment: How does it handle the initial impact, the cymbal decay (the longer the better), its distinct tone (requires a balanced high frequency response with good extension), detailing, etc.

5. Pick a tune with vocals and just listen to the realism factor. Don't concentrate on audiophile verbiage like soundstage, transparency, focus, ... ; just relax and ask yourself how convinced are you of the illusion of ... singing into your ears.

6. Take listening breaks because after a while your brain won't be able to tell a thing.

There are more things to listen for and with time you'll be able to find them rather handily.

Finally, give it some time, the changes between amps are more subtle than between headphones because with headphones you change the tone as well as degrade/improve on the technical capabilities whereas with amps the tone remains more or less the same. Certainly, different amps have different sound signatures but not in the same extent as headphones do.

 

[joelongwood]

Quote:

Originally Posted by chim Honestly, I can't hear a difference with the Pocketamp V2.

I'm not familiar with the amp in question, but just for the heck of it, try this experiment. Use the amp EXCLUSIVELY with the same headphones for about 3 days.........then listen WITHOUT the amp and see if you notice a difference. Let us know.

 

[dallasstar]

If you're going to use something such as the Audigy or Iriver as your source, and then buy a random amp that may or may not be any good, I don't doubt you don't notice a difference.

 

[chim]

thanks to everybody, especially saint.panda for that amazing writeup, for all your tips and suggestions.

dallasstar: i originally thought the iriver's were a decent source, considering the amount of people that own IHPs and list them in their sigs. Im going to upgrade to an emu 0404, and then that will be my final audio upgrade. i'll do the 3 day with/3 day without test as well, and report the differences. I'll look for the things that saint.panda suggested, and come back with results

Maybe i should get a big white tri-fold science project board as well

 

[lumanogin]

yea what they all said. give the amp a good burn in, try it for a couple more weeks. then unplug the amp and just run straight from your card. you'll be able to tell the difference, or should be able to. it's nothing that blows you away though. it's subtle but there. especially with bass. i can even with my a900's that don't get much from amps. my card is the av710, cheap but effective. i use my audigy2 for games and movies.

but then again, i too want to try other amps. the pa2v2 is really small and yea, not as attractive as those other homemade ones in aluminum cases and all.