[fotomeow]

Hey folks,
Well, due to life circumstances I've been kind of pushed towards cans, as I have no room or place for my hifi home audio get up.
A gent who is pretty well known in the DIY community suggested I look at the AGK K7XXs for a heavily reduced price on MassDrop. I read up on them and made the purchase, but the cans will not be here until early August. I was hoping to have them by the time the CAS 2016 (California AudioShow) show starts on Aug 14th, so that I can Demo the phone amps with the AKG's. 
** I just found out about the San Francisco Head-Fi meet this Saturday, and I WILL be going to try out some DACs/Amps!!
 
Either way, I could use suggestions on a good fit for the phones. I'm on a budget, so the amp should be under $500, new or used. In fact, I'm not sure how HP listeners manage their budget for a HP set up - how much to spend on Cans vs Amp vs DAC?? (e.g., in Home audio, the general recommendation is to spend about the same amount on your Source as your Amplification as your Speakers - e.g. $1000 for each). 
 
I Prefer tubes, but Solid State should be fine too, but no Class D (I'm not even sure if they have Class D HP amps. Yes, thats how much of a Newbie I am !!).  I'm told the AKGs generally require more power to sound good, but not like the hi end planars. 
 
What I'm considering so far, [though I haven't actually listened to any of them - just read reviews and word-of-mouth]
1. the Schiit amp or DAC/Amp combo
2. Bottlehead Crack/Speedball, but I dont have the time and space to build one right now
3. JDS Labs
4. Cavalli has a limited Intro price of $599 for the "Liquid Carbon" (I'm assuming this is solid state, but I can't seem to confirm that)
5. What about Burson?
6. Woo Audio?
 
thanks!! 
Gary in Santa Cruz
Any San Francisco Audiophile Society members out there?

 

[Shaffer]

...deleted

 

[ProtegeManiac]

 
Either way, I could use suggestions on a good fit for the phones. I'm on a budget, so the amp should be under $500, new or used. 
Prefer tubes, but Solid State should be fine too, but no Class D. I'm told the AKGs generally require more power to sound good, but not like the hi end planars. 
 
What I'm considering so far:
1. the Schiit amp or DAC/Amp combo
2. Bottlehead Crack/Speedball, but I dont have the time and space to build one right now
3. JDS Labs
4. Cavalli has a limited Intro price of $599 for the "Liquid Carbon" (I'm assuming this is solid state, but I can't seem to confirm that)
5. What about Burson?
6. Woo Audio?
 

 

You'll have to get specific reviews when going for tube amps, especially OTL designs (which apart from hybrid is what's popular among headphone amplifiers). OTL doesn't usually do too well with lower impedance headphones even if the output impedance and damping factor isn't a problem. Think of it like using an OTL amplifier on a 4-ohm Dynaudio tower.

 

I suggest you look into the following:

1. Schiit Asgard

2. Schiit Lyr (hybrid tube tube and solid state)

3. Meier Audio Jazz

4. Meier Audio Classic

5. Heed Can-A-Lot (the older CanAmp is regarded by many to be the best for the older AKG K701)

 

[PurpleAngel]

  Well, due to life circumstances I've been kind of pushed towards cans, as I have no room or place for my hifi home audio get up.
A gent who is pretty well known in the DIY community suggested I look at the AGK K7XXs. I read up on them and made the purchase, but the cans will not be here until early August. I was hoping to have them by the time the CAS 2016 (California AudioShow) show starts on Aug 14th, so that I can Demo the phone amps with the AKG's. 
Either way, I could use suggestions on a good fit for the phones. I'm on a budget, so the amp should be under $500, new or used. 
Prefer tubes, but Solid State should be fine too, but no Class D. I'm told the AKGs generally require more power to sound good, but not like the hi end planars. 
thanks!!  Gary in Santa Cruz
Any San Francisco Audiophile Society members out there?

 
You want to spend $500 to drive $200 headphones (nice $200 headphones)
I guess on Head-Fi it would be considered better to spend $500 on headphones and $200 for the DAC/amp.
So how about spending around $270 (plus $45 shipping) for the Audio-GD NFB-15.
http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/Headphoneamp/NFB1532/NFB15.32EN.htm
 
Nice, Santa Cruz, was thinking of moving down there.
Cheaper rent then Menlo Park.

 

[Shaffer]

You want to spend $500 to drive $200 headphones (nice $200 headphones)
I guess on Head-Fi it would be considered better to spend $500 on headphones and $200 for the DAC/amp.
[...]

Because, we gauge sound quality based on the price of a particular component. Like for real?

 

[cel4145]

You want to spend $500 to drive $200 headphones (nice $200 headphones)
I guess on Head-Fi it would be considered better to spend $500 on headphones and $200 for the DAC/amp.
So how about spending around $270 (plus $45 shipping) for the Audio-GD NFB-15.
http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/Headphoneamp/NFB1532/NFB15.32EN.htm

+1

NFB-15 is a nice choice. NFB-11 is another.

 

[ProtegeManiac]

   
You want to spend $500 to drive $200 headphones (nice $200 headphones)
I guess on Head-Fi it would be considered better to spend $500 on headphones and $200 for the DAC/amp.

 
Don't think about this one in terms of Massdrop prices - think of it in terms of what the K701 cost, and it's just lucky you can get it for only that much from Massdrop now. Before Massdrop it was sensible to spend $400 on the CanAmp to drive the $349 K701.

 

[Shaffer]

Don't think about this one in terms of Massdrop prices - think of it in terms of what the K701 cost, and it's just lucky you can get it for only that much from Massdrop now. Before Massdrop it was sensible to spend $400 on the CanAmp to drive the $349 K701.

Fair enough.

 

[fotomeow]

Thanks for all the input folks, let me try and respond/clarify: 
 
1. ProtegeManiac: I looked up the Shiit recs you made, thank you, they are right in line with my price points. 
-- any reason it wasn't recommended to try the Shiit Valhalla 2? Due to Triode? Not a good power/electronic match with the K7XXs?
------What do you like about the Meier sound?
 
2. Cel4145 & PurpleAngel:  Thanks for the HU on the Audio-GD NFB-15: I've never heard of them, but there seem to be so many HP amps out there and new designers/manufacturers joining the game pretty frequently. Do you think Audio-GD will be at the San Fran Head-fi meet this weekend July 18?/tomorrow!
 
3. All responders above and Shaffer: thanks for the discussion regarding how to distribute your $$ when buying a set up of cans/amps ... what about DACs?
But to make sure I understand: Are you all pretty much saying that I should spend about the same amount of $$ on an amp (MSRP-wise) as I do on a pair of cans??
 
thanks again,
GAry

 

[Shaffer]

3. All responders above and Shaffer: thanks for the discussion regarding how to distribute your $$ when buying a set up of cans/amps ... what about DACs?
But to make sure I understand: Are you all pretty much saying that I should spend about the same amount of $$ on an amp (MSRP-wise) as I do on a pair of cans??

thanks again,
GAry

Hi Gary. If one is aiming for sound quality, the source material comes first, then the front end, then the amplifier, and the headphones last. Sure, getting new cans is the easiest way to change the tonal balance of a system, and if it were the only relevant audio attribute, then end of story. Good headphones will only reproduce what's fed into them. The better the headphone, the more transparent, the more it will sound like the gear and source material that lies downstream. The point of all this is to make your music sound better and to allow you to hear more of it via increased resolution of the recording. That won't happen without good gear upfront.

You asked about a DAC. Not my area of expertise, as I greatly prefer full-size component players. For example, ATM I use an Oppo105. The only DAC that I've hear that's reasonably priced and absolutely kills the Modi (the worst) HRT MSII (not bad), and an Audioquest Dragonfly (very good). I've had all three side-by-side and unfortunately own the Modi. Missed the return period.

I'll shoot you a PM.

 

[cel4145]

Seems backwards to me, like trying to polish a turd. If you pair $25 crappy headphones with $10K gear, they will still sound crappy. Yet, you can use a good pair of headphones with a $30 Sansa Clip+, and they will sound very good as long as the Clip+ has enough power to drive it.

And that tends to be the case. It's not too expensive to find a DAC that is accurate, near transparent in converting the digital to audio. And transparent headphone amps are not too costly either. Above that, there are diminishing returns in investing more. And, in fact, any differences may be inaudible when compared using DBT.

 

[Sam21]

  Hey folks,
Well, due to life circumstances I've been kind of pushed towards cans, as I have no room or place for my hifi home audio get up.
A gent who is pretty well known in the DIY community suggested I look at the AGK K7XXs for a heavily reduced price on MassDrop. I read up on them and made the purchase, but the cans will not be here until early August. I was hoping to have them by the time the CAS 2016 (California AudioShow) show starts on Aug 14th, so that I can Demo the phone amps with the AKG's. 
** I just found out about the San Francisco Head-Fi meet this Saturday, and I WILL be going to try out some DACs/Amps!!
 
Either way, I could use suggestions on a good fit for the phones. I'm on a budget, so the amp should be under $500, new or used. In fact, I'm not sure how HP listeners manage their budget for a HP set up - how much to spend on Cans vs Amp vs DAC?? (e.g., in Home audio, the general recommendation is to spend about the same amount on your Source as your Amplification as your Speakers - e.g. $1000 for each). 
 
I Prefer tubes, but Solid State should be fine too, but no Class D (I'm not even sure if they have Class D HP amps. Yes, thats how much of a Newbie I am !!).  I'm told the AKGs generally require more power to sound good, but not like the hi end planars. 
 
What I'm considering so far, [though I haven't actually listened to any of them - just read reviews and word-of-mouth]
1. the Schiit amp or DAC/Amp combo
2. Bottlehead Crack/Speedball, but I dont have the time and space to build one right now
3. JDS Labs
4. Cavalli has a limited Intro price of $599 for the "Liquid Carbon" (I'm assuming this is solid state, but I can't seem to confirm that)
5. What about Burson?
6. Woo Audio?
 
thanks!! 
Gary in Santa Cruz
Any San Francisco Audiophile Society members out there?

If that is the only headphone you're gonna have then buy a Modi 2 Uber + O2 amp, however, If you think you're gonna buy a lot more or a lot better then invest in a [better] stand alone DAC and amp(not combo) as you can replace them. I have not tried Audio-GD products, but a lot of people say that they have driver/noise problems with their unit. your money. your choice.

 

[Stillhart]

  Thanks for all the input folks, let me try and respond/clarify: 
 
1. ProtegeManiac: I looked up the Shiit recs you made, thank you, they are right in line with my price points. 
-- any reason it wasn't recommended to try the Shiit Valhalla 2? Due to Triode? Not a good power/electronic match with the K7XXs?
------What do you like about the Meier sound?
 
2. Cel4145 & PurpleAngel:  Thanks for the HU on the Audio-GD NFB-15: I've never heard of them, but there seem to be so many HP amps out there and new designers/manufacturers joining the game pretty frequently. Do you think Audio-GD will be at the San Fran Head-fi meet this weekend July 18?/tomorrow!
 
3. All responders above and Shaffer: thanks for the discussion regarding how to distribute your $$ when buying a set up of cans/amps ... what about DACs?
But to make sure I understand: Are you all pretty much saying that I should spend about the same amount of $$ on an amp (MSRP-wise) as I do on a pair of cans??
 
thanks again,
GAry

 
Audio-GD just had their 11th anniversary, they've been around for a while.  I'll third the suggestion on the NFB-15 or 11.  The 15 was my first real DAC (other than the Modi, which I returned for not sounding any different than my Sound Blaster) and I still use it as my work DAC/Amp.  
 
They won't have an official presence at the meet as they're out of China, but there may be members there with units.

 

[ProtegeManiac]

 
I looked up the Shiit recs you made, thank you, they are right in line with my price points. 
-- any reason it wasn't recommended to try the Shiit Valhalla 2? Due to Triode? Not a good power/electronic match with the K7XXs?

 
Output Transformer-Less amp designs typically struggle with lower impedance loads. I can't remember the technical details anymore, but basically the lack of an output transformer makes an OTL amp effectively have a high output impedance. Power delivery is also biased for higher impedance loads - look at the output specs on the Valhalla vs the Asgard and Lyr, where the Valhalla makes a lot more power at 300ohms while the other two at 32ohms. Despite that an amp like the latter two will have less trouble with a 300ohm load than the Valhalla would with a 52ohm load.
 
Schiit claims the Valhalla does a lot better with low impedance loads than other OTL designs, but I take to that more along the lines of "buy the Valhalla with the HD600 and HD800, and oh by the way I can use my RS-1 on the same system with the same amp in case I feel like listening with that one."
 
 

 
------What do you like about the Meier sound?

 

That there's nothing I dislike about it - transparent, dynamic, powerful - or as I would usually say if I'm reviewing an amp, "unremarkable in a positive way" (ie I have nothing to complain about - no inarticulate or bloated bass, no modification to the midrange, etc). There are other amps that have a low damping factor even with very high output and very large power supplies for example.

 

Schiit amps are also transparent, like how the Valhalla doesn't make Norah Jones sound like she needs to huff a jar of vicks (unlike when you use an OTL amp with some headphones) but the topology is very different among their amps, that's why on certain headphones you can have a drastically different sound. Meiers use the same basic topology and the main variation is the power supply design (aside from which op-amps are used and the circuit built around them), ie some are bigger and some are run with batteries, so the distortion characteristics are more similar and more along the lines of how soon will a particular amp distort (ie the battery powered ones will just distort a lot sooner than the flagship amp).

 

 

 

 

  thanks for the discussion regarding how to distribute your $$ when buying a set up of cans/amps ... what about DACs?
But to make sure I understand: Are you all pretty much saying that I should spend about the same amount of $$ on an amp (MSRP-wise) as I do on a pair of cans??

 

I don't put up exact figures, and like I said Massdrop prices are a beautiful aberration. I would look more into the size of the amp before the price, actually - as in "why would you need a headphone amp the size (and worth a lot more than the price) of an integrated amp (for speakers) when this smaller amp that won't have trouble on your desk can do the job?" At the same time note that there are tiny amps that can do a good job (or basically just pump out more power) but they cost at lot more than the same desktop amp. For the most part price coincides with how they make monster amplifiers and tiny but capable ones.

 

 

[cel4145]

Schiit amps are also transparent, like how the Valhalla doesn't make Norah Jones sound like she needs to huff a jar of vicks (unlike when you use an OTL amp with some headphones)

LOL