Newbie: Denon AH-D7000, AVR-4306, amp?

[estwd]

Hi all,

I just received my AH-D7000 from JR.com. I called them to place my order and they took $30 off, so I got it for $520 shipped.

Anyway, back to my post.

I have my Shure 530's for the road, but I wanted something I could use at home that had great sound and I could easily take on and off when my wife wants something.

Here are my questions:

1. Does the 25 ohm of the 7000 mean that it doesn't take much to drive them and an amp is not needed?

If I do need one,

2. Is my Denon AVR-4306 powerful enough to drive the best sound or should I add an amp?

3. When listening via my iPhone in bed or at the computer (correct me if I am wrong) I should use the digital connection on the bottom of the iPhone, connected into a DAC, fed through an amp, and out to my headpones?

4. If this is all correct what is the best como DAC/Amp for the job? I don't need something to take out of the house, but it would need to be portable enough for me to use in different rooms of the house.

5. Where are the best prices found?

Sorry for all the questions, new here, and ready to dive in.

Thanks!

estwd

 

[twylight]

I am interested in the same stuff and have been doing some searching. Many people on this forum say the 2000/5000/7000 should be driven off a solid state amp instead of a tube amplifier.

The audio-gd compass is highly regarded as well as the EF1 for a hybrid amp.

There are some decent threads about this - search for 7000 and tubes or amplifier - here is one that has a lot of replies.

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/goo...-d5000-315345/

as well as

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f4/den...gistry-408550/

 

[estwd]

Thanks, I'll take a look.

One thing I worry about is the built in rechargable batteries that many units seem to have.

I'd hate to pay $XXX for an amp/dac to have the unit not work without a power adapter in a couple of years.

estwd



Quote:

Originally Posted by twylight /img/forum/go_quote.gif I am interested in the same stuff and have been doing some searching. Many people on this forum say the 2000/5000/7000 should be driven off a solid state amp instead of a tube amplifier. The audio-gd compass is highly regarded as well as the EF1 for a hybrid amp. There are some decent threads about this - search for 7000 and tubes or amplifier - here is one that has a lot of replies. http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/goo...-d5000-315345/ as well as http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f4/den...gistry-408550/

 

[twylight]

i wouldnt mess with a portable amp at all - it should be pretty good straight out of a 2g ipod

Do some research on the denon receiver - it probably has a 50 cent chip in it for headphone amp and is well below a dedicated headphone amp. I could be wrong, but thats how most are these days.

I think many people that for the portable rig and these headphones - just go direct. At your main listening station at home and work is where you drop the big bucks on dedicated equipment.

I think a good place to try to get your feet wet is the audio-gd compass or ef1 (without drowning your piggy bank right off the bat)

The last receiver I recall having a good headphone amp was a marantz 4400.

 

[mchang]

Unbelievable price on the D7000! And I thought I got a good deal on a pair of $400 D5000...

To answer your questions:

1) Short answer: You will want an amp to make the D7000 sound near what they are capable of. You have a sports car; give it the premium gas and good tires.

2) I do not know about the AVR unit. Sorry.

3) You will not need a DAC if you driving it from the iPhone line out (aka. the bottom port). The iPhone is already translating the digital data to analog sound. You just need a iPhone-compatible line-out dock (LOD) to take the sound to an amp. Most LOD terminate in a 1/8" plug, but you can get something custom made to terminate in 1/4" or RCA.

4) You can get a portable amp (or a portable DAC/amp combo if you think you will want to play tunes off a computer/laptop using USB). I have a portable Pico DAC/amp from Headamp. The unit is available as an amp only if you want to save a few bucks. Long story hopefully shorter: the sound is noticeably better out of my laptop through the Pico's DAC and amp, compared to iPhone to Pico amp only. But the amp-only sound is definitely better than iPhone to headphones with no amp.

5) This is an unanswerable question. There are hundreds of amps and DACs and DAC/amp combos out there.

Evaluate what you need. Does it have to be portable? Do you want/need a DAC for computer playthrough? Do you want a separate DAC and amp, so you can tailor your sound and upgrade each individually? Do you want tubes or solid state or hybrid? And ultimately, how much do you want to spend?

====

If you're not up for going through forum thread after forum thread, here's the down and dirty:

- if you're always going to use the iPhone, go to the Cables... For Sale Forum and post a WTB (want to buy) thread for an iPhone-compatible LOD. Or go to Qables or AudioLineOut or another line-out manufacturer. Make sure it's good for iPhone, many are not.

- buy a portable amp (skip the DAC). The ones that get the most publicity are made by Headamp (Pico) or Ray Samuels (Predator), but there are many. Again, check out the For Sale Forum for deals. BTW... I tried the amp sections only on the Pico and Predator recently, and they are fairly close. Predator is slightly stronger in mids and bass (good if your headphones are bass shy, which the D7000 shouldn't be). But I preferred the Pico overall. Both are rechargeable, and come with power adapter which allows you to charge and power at the same time.

- you will have to turn on Airplane Mode on your iPhone, which prevents calls from coming in (although you can turn on wi-fi separately after activating Airplane Mode). If you do not, you will get radio static as your phone searches for a cell signal periodically.

====

Good luck.

Quote:

Originally Posted by estwd /img/forum/go_quote.gif Hi all, I just received my AH-D7000 from JR.com. I called them to place my order and they took $30 off, so I got it for $520 shipped. Anyway, back to my post. I have my Shure 530's for the road, but I wanted something I could use at home that had great sound and I could easily take on and off when my wife wants something. Here are my questions: 1. Does the 25 ohm of the 7000 mean that it doesn't take much to drive them and an amp is not needed? If I do need one, 2. Is my Denon AVR-4306 powerful enough to drive the best sound or should I add an amp? 3. When listening via my iPhone in bed or at the computer (correct me if I am wrong) I should use the digital connection on the bottom of the iPhone, connected into a DAC, fed through an amp, and out to my headpones? 4. If this is all correct what is the best como DAC/Amp for the job? I don't need something to take out of the house, but it would need to be portable enough for me to use in different rooms of the house. 5. Where are the best prices found? Sorry for all the questions, new here, and ready to dive in. Thanks! estwd

 

[theBigD]

I recommend solid state. Gives better punch and tightness to the bass. The compass is a good choice. I like the C2C as well. You might look into the purity audio KICAS amp as well. its gotten a lot of good reviews around here and ive got a caliente comming later this week.

By the way. Welcome to Head Fi, Sorry Bout Yer Wallet!

 

[estwd]

WOW, thanks for the very detailed explanation!


If the iPhone is already converting the signal to analog, then why do I need to use the bottom connector to get better sound than the headphone connector? Why is line out better?

So I only need a DAC if I am connecting to a pc?

How can DACs differ in quality? Aren't they just converting from digital to analog? Isn't it similar to all HDMI cables sending a digital signal and basically being the same?

I only need something to use in the house - moveable from room to room.

Does the AH-D7000 25 Ohms help determine which amp is best?

Thanks!

estwd






Quote:

Originally Posted by mchang /img/forum/go_quote.gif Unbelievable price on the D7000! And I thought I got a good deal on a pair of $400 D5000... To answer your questions: 1) Short answer: You will want an amp to make the D7000 sound near what they are capable of. You have a sports car; give it the premium gas and good tires. 2) I do not know about the AVR unit. Sorry. 3) You will not need a DAC if you driving it from the iPhone line out (aka. the bottom port). The iPhone is already translating the digital data to analog sound. You just need a iPhone-compatible line-out dock (LOD) to take the sound to an amp. Most LOD terminate in a 1/8" plug, but you can get something custom made to terminate in 1/4" or RCA. 4) You can get a portable amp (or a portable DAC/amp combo if you think you will want to play tunes off a computer/laptop using USB). I have a portable Pico DAC/amp from Headamp. The unit is available as an amp only if you want to save a few bucks. Long story hopefully shorter: the sound is noticeably better out of my laptop through the Pico's DAC and amp, compared to iPhone to Pico amp only. But the amp-only sound is definitely better than iPhone to headphones with no amp. 5) This is an unanswerable question. There are hundreds of amps and DACs and DAC/amp combos out there. Evaluate what you need. Does it have to be portable? Do you want/need a DAC for computer playthrough? Do you want a separate DAC and amp, so you can tailor your sound and upgrade each individually? Do you want tubes or solid state or hybrid? And ultimately, how much do you want to spend? ==== If you're not up for going through forum thread after forum thread, here's the down and dirty: - if you're always going to use the iPhone, go to the Cables... For Sale Forum and post a WTB (want to buy) thread for an iPhone-compatible LOD. Or go to Qables or AudioLineOut or another line-out manufacturer. Make sure it's good for iPhone, many are not. - buy a portable amp (skip the DAC). The ones that get the most publicity are made by Headamp (Pico) or Ray Samuels (Predator), but there are many. Again, check out the For Sale Forum for deals. BTW... I tried the amp sections only on the Pico and Predator recently, and they are fairly close. Predator is slightly stronger in mids and bass (good if your headphones are bass shy, which the D7000 shouldn't be). But I preferred the Pico overall. Both are rechargeable, and come with power adapter which allows you to charge and power at the same time. - you will have to turn on Airplane Mode on your iPhone, which prevents calls from coming in (although you can turn on wi-fi separately after activating Airplane Mode). If you do not, you will get radio static as your phone searches for a cell signal periodically. ==== Good luck.

 

[mchang]

I've always wondered why the line out of iPods and iPhones are better, but have yet to read specifically why. I'm assuming it is because the headphone jack has circuitry to adjust volume, whereas the bottom connector does not. For example, if you plug an iPod into a car stereo using a headphone adapter, you have to adjust the volume on the iPod (but not too high or else it gets distorted) and then adjust the volume on the car radio. No optimum.

---

I believe you would also want a DAC if you wanted to bypass the internal digital decoder and/or internal amp circuitry of a (crappy) standalone CD/DVD player. I don't have a lot of experience here -- as I only listen to ripped CDs in MP3 or lossless formats -- but I could connect my $75 DVD player to my DAC using optical or coaxial digital out. The DVD player would only be the machine to spin and read the disc. The zeros and ones would get sent to the DAC for decoding to analog.

If you have a high-quality CD player, you could skip the DAC entirely.

---

I am not technically minded to explain how DACs differ, but it is safe to say that different quality and implementation of the internal parts/circuits result in different sound. The iPhone and iPod are DACs, but their components are selected for size and cost, not audiophile quality. Same with some computer soundcards. And I would guess that a $1000+ DAC will sound better than a $250 one, at least to some/most ears.

I originally fed my amps with an iPod. Then I moved to an external unit (the EMU 0404 USB) which is really an odd DAC, amp, sound board combo. Ultimately, I upgraded to the OMZ (Oritek Modded Zhalou). Each step has resulted in better instrument separation, wider soundstage and better overall sound. But each one was also a jump in cost and size.

---

As for portability from room to room, here is what I've done: I bought a wood topped, wheeled wire kitchen cart from Target (the kind you can put a microwave on top, along with bowls, etc. about $50). To this, I have zip tied a power strip which powers my Airport Express (which networks to my computer downstairs to serve up the MP3s), my DAC and amp. My headphone stand (towel rack from Bed Bath and Beyond) sits on top with my Denons and Senns. You could easily substitute a quality CD player for the DAC.

The beauty of the setup is that I can roll it into the office closet to get it out of the way or roll it to the bedroom for an extended listen in bed.

---

Finally, I think the Denons or whatever headphones you choose should direct your other purchases. That and the level of portability/moveability you want. You could say that my setup is really built around the Airport Express, as I have all of my tunes on a computer downstairs. I had to have something that could interact with my AEX via optical tostlink (which the OMZ does).

Short of any environmental constraints, finding a match with your Denons is going to be key. I just got a PM from a Head-Fier who was loving his D7000 with the Gilmore Lite (the amp I currently have). I received my modded Denons this past Saturday and I must say that it has renewed my love for the GLite. Many people also swear by the M^3, Corda Opera, XCan V8, and other solid-state amps.

I would recommend searching for "D7000 amps" in the forums and reading some of the recommendations. I don't have any personal experience with the 7000, but my 5000 are supposedly a less refined and more bassy version of the 7000. My decision to get markl to mod the D5000 and my match with the GLite are purposeful attempts to tame the bass and even out the shrill highs, while maintaining the speed and details. I believe I have ultimately achieved that and I hope to be happy for a very long time.

Wow, that was a lot... I hope I haven't confused you (or others) more. I am definitely not a Supremus, so definitely take others suggestions ahead of mine.

Quote:

Originally Posted by estwd /img/forum/go_quote.gif WOW, thanks for the very detailed explanation! If the iPhone is already converting the signal to analog, then why do I need to use the bottom connector to get better sound than the headphone connector? Why is line out better? So I only need a DAC if I am connecting to a pc? How can DACs differ in quality? Aren't they just converting from digital to analog? Isn't it similar to all HDMI cables sending a digital signal and basically being the same? I only need something to use in the house - moveable from room to room. Does the AH-D7000 25 Ohms help determine which amp is best? Thanks! estwd

 

[techenvy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mchang /img/forum/go_quote.gif Unbelievable price on the D7000! And I thought I got a good deal on a pair of $400 D5000... To answer your questions: 1) Short answer: You will want an amp to make the D7000 sound near what they are capable of. You have a sports car; give it the premium gas and good tires. 2) I do not know about the AVR unit. Sorry. 3) You will not need a DAC if you driving it from the iPhone line out (aka. the bottom port). The iPhone is already translating the digital data to analog sound. You just need a iPhone-compatible line-out dock (LOD) to take the sound to an amp. Most LOD terminate in a 1/8" plug, but you can get something custom made to terminate in 1/4" or RCA. 4) You can get a portable amp (or a portable DAC/amp combo if you think you will want to play tunes off a computer/laptop using USB). I have a portable Pico DAC/amp from Headamp. The unit is available as an amp only if you want to save a few bucks. Long story hopefully shorter: the sound is noticeably better out of my laptop through the Pico's DAC and amp, compared to iPhone to Pico amp only. But the amp-only sound is definitely better than iPhone to headphones with no amp. 5) This is an unanswerable question. There are hundreds of amps and DACs and DAC/amp combos out there. Evaluate what you need. Does it have to be portable? Do you want/need a DAC for computer playthrough? Do you want a separate DAC and amp, so you can tailor your sound and upgrade each individually? Do you want tubes or solid state or hybrid? And ultimately, how much do you want to spend? ==== If you're not up for going through forum thread after forum thread, here's the down and dirty: - if you're always going to use the iPhone, go to the Cables... For Sale Forum and post a WTB (want to buy) thread for an iPhone-compatible LOD. Or go to Qables or AudioLineOut or another line-out manufacturer. Make sure it's good for iPhone, many are not. - buy a portable amp (skip the DAC). The ones that get the most publicity are made by Headamp (Pico) or Ray Samuels (Predator), but there are many. Again, check out the For Sale Forum for deals. BTW... I tried the amp sections only on the Pico and Predator recently, and they are fairly close. Predator is slightly stronger in mids and bass (good if your headphones are bass shy, which the D7000 shouldn't be). But I preferred the Pico overall. Both are rechargeable, and come with power adapter which allows you to charge and power at the same time. - you will have to turn on Airplane Mode on your iPhone, which prevents calls from coming in (although you can turn on wi-fi separately after activating Airplane Mode). If you do not, you will get radio static as your phone searches for a cell signal periodically. ==== Good luck.

good info,,, i got the 7000s and my headphone amps bass sucks, i got the at ha 25 d from auio chniiac, i need one wth optical toslink input and usb input $500 ideally up to $1000
id like some real good bass low and good pop to it